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  Porsche 997 Turbo      

  Article Image gallery (5) Specifications User Comments (25)  
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Country of origin:Germany
Produced from:2009 - 2011
Introduced at:2009 Frankfurt Motor Show
Internal name:997 II
Predecessor:Porsche 997 Turbo
Source:Company press release
Last updated:August 10, 2009
Download: All images

Add your comments on the Porsche 997 Turbo

 just one clutch thanks!  
clutch-monkey
12-22-2009
if i had to take a 911 turbo, i'd dispense with the PDK! normal manual for me - otherwise might as well have the GTR haha. given freedom of choice i'd have to say i would take a GT3 over the GTR without hesitation though. rock solid cars, very raw and intuitive.
 kinda superior  
Aaron Rozzi
12-21-2009
Of course clutch-monkey prefers the 911. It has like 6 clutches! I think the 997 turbo is superior to the nissan gtr in every aspect except weight distribution and the shape of its' tq and hp curves. It's true that the nissan is driving! It feels like a team effort driving that car, like you are working with the machine to make it go, and occasionally the driver and the machine disagree! Like when you are rolling at a stop sign so it decides to shift into 2nd gear and you get an opening to go and the car doesn't want to go yet. So next time you anticipate the car's desire to upshift and tap it into first so that you don't look like a bumbling idiot at a four-way-stop.
 superior or better to drive?  
clutch-monkey
12-13-2009
because we all know having fun > going fast > looking good.
so i'd take the honda 911 over the honda barge, because seriously, that car has issues over who's actually driving.
 the questions of actual performance vs brand  
thedark_master
12-09-2009
Ok what if I asked you this question, if you strip the name from the car. So the Porsche is not a Porsche anymore and the Nissan is not a Nissan. Lets say they are both Hondas. Regardless of the brand, which one would you say is the superior machine?
 Have we found the truth about rear engines?  
Aaron Rozzi
10-15-2009
Based on NicFromLA's and clutch-monkey's comments I gather that the rear engine layout, while imperfect performance-wise, has quirky handling characteristics that give the car what other's have referred to as "soul.". Not that the GT3 doesn't handle beautifully while providing loads of fun. I still believe that a mid engine GT3 or GT2 would handle better, perhaps at the loss of personality.
 911 vs. Carerra GT  
NicFromLA
10-07-2009
Aaron,

The CGT is no longer in production and Porsche's current top of the line performance car is the rear-engine 911 GT2, which is turning in faster lap times than the CGT.

Personally I believe that a naturally aspirated, RWD, rear-engine car is a great formula for a sports car BECAUSE of it's flaws. Oversteering a rear engine car and throwing the back out only to snap it back in line due to acceleration is one of the most fun things anyone can ever do in a car.

PS: These debates are, as always, in good fun and there's no personal animosity.
 911/997 vs GTR  
wstander
10-07-2009
Kiwieb

I looked up what little info available on the GTR and in 20 + years, have yet to find a win directly against a 911 series, let alone a win in what we usually consider mainstream high end competition; ie: Le Mans, SCCA, IMSA, etc. Most wins were in Asia only events, and never against directly 911s.

If you can point me to the severaql references, please do so.

A one shot run on non-sanctioned racetrack portion is nice for PR, but means little compared to 40+ years of all-out competition in the 'open arenas'. I don't doubt or discount that the GTR can be faster, but we can all point to other, one-off events to prove other cars faster....What speed has the GTR attained at Talledega, for instance?

 try it out  
clutch-monkey
10-07-2009
go drive one, is all i can suggest. it may not appeal to you because you readily admit being an engineer first rather than a driver, but you will at least be able to discern the unique feel.
i fully suggest any automotive enthusiast needs to try or at best own a GT3 of any generation at some point.
you will need to learn what the car can do and it's unique traits; the car will let you build a rapport with it that you don't get in cars with a lot of electronic assists.
 Does rear-engine have intangible value?  
Aaron Rozzi
09-29-2009
I understand somewhat. Can someone explain to me what the value is in the rear-engine layout and tradition? People are saying there is this value, something beyond numbers. What is it?
 Comment to discussion.  
Brix
09-22-2009
Aaron Rozzi. This is not a personal attack, so please don't take it so..
What you wrote in you original comment was:

"All this new technology is wasted on a car with an archaic engine placement, that is why the Nissan GTR performs better; front engine/rear transaxle = good balance. Porsche needs to abandon the rear engine tradition and flip the block over to the front of the rear axle to make a rear-midengined 911, like the Cayman."

Your comment is on the tip of being professional, and without personal preference, but because you do have some of it in it, you automatically start a discussion.
The thing in this comment i react most on, is that you state that
-"Porsche needs to abandon the rear engine tradition and flip the block over to the front of the rear axle to make a rear-midengined 911, like the Cayman."
By saying this, you show no knowledge of what makes Porsche a Porsche!. I know you state that you write as en engineer, but cold facts and theories isn't all in this world, what the rear engine design and the legacy of it, gives the Porsche something special, which the GTR will never have!, and can't get measured or weighed. Saying that it's wasted technology is just wrong, because why not improve on something which all in all is a very good car!? Remember there is more to life, than what can be calculated and measured!
 Trying to set things straight  
Aaron Rozzi
09-09-2009
Alright, I should have known that criticizing anything with a Porsche badge would elicit unmitigated emotional responses laced with ad hominem attacks. The context of my comments has been ignored.
I claimed that the performance of the Nissan GT-R is better than that of the Porsche 997 Turbo road going production car.
-I fail to see what either of these cars have to do with the successes of their racing counterparts. Race cars are very different from road cars, they have rules and regulations they adhere to which limit their design. I only compared the two production cars.
- I did not claim that performance was everything. I claim that the Nissan's layout is better for performance and practicality. I won't claim that it sounds as good, and I certainly won't claim that the interior or exterior design is nearly as attractive as the Porsche's. Just because you prefer the Porsche doesn't mean you have to deny any possibility of a flaw and insult someone who points it out.

NicFromLA: I still maintain that mid-engine and/or front-engine with rear-transaxle are better layouts than rear-engine. Why else would Porsche opt to make their highest performance production model, the Carrera GT, a mid-engine car?

I guess the difference between me and the Porsche enthusiast is that I am an engineer first and a driver second. I base my opinions more on numbers than on sensation.
 Keep ya Shirts on  
Kiwieb
09-05-2009
all you naysayers and read what I actually wrote. I am not dismissing the 911/997 et al as BAD cars, simply as flawed ones because of the engine placement i.e. would be a far superior package if the engine was placed amidships.....and one cannot dismiss 40 years of intense development needed to overcome the inherent instability of the engine overhanging the fulcrum balance moment of the car and its resulting tendency to fish tail and swap ends.

and as Mr Rozzi points out, the GT-R virtually from production is easily able to beat a car evolved over that 40 years around the Nuburgring Nordschleife clearly demolishes your argument. Even PORSCHE itself recognises the signifigance of that feat, hence its claim that NISSAN were somehow cheating.

and also the fact that no other maker has followed PORSCHE's example is surely another nail in your fatuous arguments

and as for wanting a list of racing events where the GT-R defeats the PORSCHE 911 variants - watch this space

 Wasn't Always a  
NicFromLA
09-02-2009
Placing the engine in the rear of the car wasn't "always a bad idea". The 356 is a brilliant car to drive and can out maneuver any of it's contemporaries and even most modern cars. There's a reason Porsche DOMINATED in under 1500cc races in the 50s and early 60s.
 Mr. Rozzi and Kiwieb anti-997 rants  
wstander
09-02-2009
Well folks, it appears by their lack of response, that Mr.Rozzi and Kiwieb are either shills for Nissan and the GT-R, or just trolls....

I had asked Mr.Rozzi on a couple of occasions for some real world data concerning his GT-R versus the 911/997, to no avail. Just the same 'pull a string' factual regurgitation of GT-R 'facts' without really answering my questions.


 numbers aren't everything.  
clutch-monkey
09-02-2009
it's always amusing to see how easy it is to pick the benchrest racers, who have never driven a 911.
 Comment to discussion.  
Brix
08-28-2009
Aaron Rozzi and Kiwieb, i hope your not calling yourself car enthusiast. Because you don't recognize what a awesome machine the 997 is then you don't understand cars! Yes the GT-R does a better time around Nürnberg, but that is the only thing the GT-R beats the Porsche in!. As i wrote earlier, the Porsche is a masterpiece, a car with SOUL!, and when you are a car enthusiast, then you don't care about seconds around Nürnberg, but you care about what you feel for the car. Like the Beetle, Mini, DS and so on, it's the feeling the car gives you when driving.
Btw, there is no such thing as brand dilution, a brand is stamp of "something". Like Toyota is a brand of long lasting, Honda good engines, Ferrari=Passion and so on.
But generally this discussion is stupid, because you can't discuss passion and soul!, if you don't feel it for a car, then you don't feel it. To put it in perspective, what you did Aaron Rozzi, would be the same if i called the Nissan GT-R a boring piece of cold enginering and plastic. (Also, had Nissan kept the Skyline name, and kept it to the tradition following the Skyline, then it would been closer to the Porsche in soul, instead of losing all, with a new name!)
 Porsche brand dilution  
wstander
08-25-2009
Uh, okay then, Mr. GT-R, where IS the lengthy list of sanctioned racing victories for your 'superior' GT-R? You rail against Porsche and revel in Nissan, but I cannot find one recognized sanctioned event in which the GT-R has competed or won? Why is this?? I know that Nissan used to 'play and win' in SCCA and Le Mans series, but I don't recall the vehicle as being a GT-R.

So, please point me to a sanctioned and recognized event in which the GT-R even participated, let alone won against 997s or C6Rs; educate us unlearned folks:-)
 Pedigree or Brand Dilution?  
Aaron Rozzi
08-21-2009
-If Porsche is such a racing pedigree why does the brand insist on maintaining the rear-engine layout which undisputedly compromises racing performance?
-If "results speak wonders," then here's a result: after Porsche "spent over 40 years perfecting rear engine sports cars" the Nissan GT-R outperforms the 911 Turbo with only a few years of development (yes the Skyline has been around for decades, but the GT-R is all new from the ground up, and the first with a dual-clutch rear trans-axle).
-Porsche's selling point: brand recognition based on tradition, exterior design, and material quality, then performance quality. Hence the brand dilution caused by the Porsche Cayenne and the detuning of the Cayman....
-The Nissan GT-R has all the passenger and cargo space of the 911, but without the poor balance.

If Porsche gave the 911 Turbo a mid-engine layout it would be the perfect car with all the mystique, attractive design, AND without compromised performance.
 extreme engine placements  
wstander
08-18-2009
extreme engine placements can alter handling, that is true.

Ok, let us place a 12 litre V-12 in the center of any chassis...how about the Cayman or the Nissan GTR?

Would this cause a problem?

FWIW: I do not thnk that the 997s tires are '3 feet wide', but I don't have a measuring tape nor a 997 to measure:-)

 Stupid Engine Placement  
Kiwieb
08-18-2009
Mr Rozzi is quite correct, placing an engine beyond the rear axle line was always a misconceived idea; simple physics makes it so.

...and if the same 911 performance engine was placed in the Cayman [i.e. inside the rear axle-line], the 911 would be shown once and for all how very flawed it is: e.g. the almost three foot wide tyres the 911 has to have to keep it on track and its 40 years of engineering evolution to minimise the defects of its stupid engine placement.

PORSCHE have been careful to have the CAYMAN detuned beneath the 911 for those very reasons.

Surely PORSCHE can simply produce a 911 with a "mid-engine" layout?

Now that would be a car worthy of belonging in the third millenium wouldn't it?
 Not wasted technology  
capone
08-18-2009
I agree with the last 2 comments. This is what makes Porsche unique. They spent over 40 years perfecting rear engine sports cars.
 Wasted tech?  
wstander
08-17-2009
When the Nissan GTR has the same pedigree and racing heritage as the Porsche 997 with its 'archaic engine' placement, let me know...Until then, results speak wonders:-)
 Answer to earlier comment.  
Brix
08-14-2009
No you are wrong!
Because the rear engine is what makes a Porsche a Porsche!, it gives the car soul and makes it unique!
The GTR is piece of boring technology, which will be forget in 5-10 years, where the Porsche will live forever!
Porsche should keep on doing what they do best.. Build fast rear engined sportscars!
 Not Wasted Technology  
NicFromLA
08-12-2009
While a rear engine does have some small disadvantages from purely a performance stand point, it's a fantastic place from a packaging stand point: The 911 has a low hood which means greater visibility and it has frontal storage space, the cabin is spacious for two adults and located almost directly in the middle of the wheelbase and there is a large storage/small seating area behind the driver, and all of this fits into a fairly small and lightweight car. . . . A small and lightweight car that is usable everyday and ferocious on the track. I love the Nissan GT-R and I'd buy one if I could, but placing the engine behind the rear axel is still an absolutely brilliant idea.
 Wasted technology  
Aaron Rozzi
08-10-2009
All this new technology is wasted on a car with an archaic engine placement, that is why the Nissan GTR performs better; front engine/rear transaxle = good balance. Porsche needs to abandon the rear engine tradition and flip the block over to the front of the rear axle to make a rear-midengined 911, like the Cayman.

  Article Image gallery (5) Specifications User Comments (25)