1968 Ford Mustang

[harddrivin1le]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Your eyes painted on? if I ment Rear wheel horse power I would of said it. I dont give a flying Rats Ass what you posted you need to relaise the forum doesnt revolve around you..

400 Gross HP at the flywheel for an OHV V8 engine packed full of modern aftermarket parts is nothing.

This bone stock LS1 crate motor made 429 Gross HP right out of the box:

New Dog, Old Trick

Peak output swelled to 503 Gross HP with nothing more than a mild cam swap (.525" lift and modest duration) and LS6 valve springs - WITH THE STOCK (and untouched) HEADS, STOCK CRANK, STOCK RODS, STOCK PISTONS, STOCK BLOCK, etc., etc.

This full-boogie 347 stoker Ford (sold by Ford as a "racing engine") couldn't touch that figure - despite the fact that it was fitted with a significantly more radical cam and couldn't touch the LS1's overall streetability:

Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-6007-C347*]

475hp 347 Stroker Ford Small Block - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine


The LS1 is also lighter (~ 90 pounds fully dressed vs. same) and more fuel efficient.

Old engines are fine for what they were but 40 years worth of progress can't be denied. Ford would still be using the 302 in passenger cars if were state of the art. They don't because it isn't.

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by harddrivin1le

400 Gross HP at the flywheel for an OHV V8 engine packed full of modern aftermarket parts is nothing.

This bone stock LS1 crate motor made 429 Gross HP right out of the box:

New Dog, Old Trick

Peak output swelled to 503 Gross HP with nothing more than a mild cam swap (.525" lift and modest duration) and LS6 valve springs - WITH THE STOCK (and untouched) HEADS, STOCK CRANK, STOCK RODS, STOCK PISTONS, STOCK BLOCK, etc., etc.

This full-boogie 347 stoker Ford (sold by Ford as a "racing engine") couldn't touch that figure - despite the fact that it was fitted with a significantly more radical cam and couldn't touch the LS1's overall streetability:

Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-6007-C347*]

475hp 347 Stroker Ford Small Block - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine


The LS1 is also lighter (~ 90 pounds fully dressed vs. same) and more fuel efficient.

Old engines are fine for what they were but 40 years worth of progress can't be denied. Ford would still be using the 302 in passenger cars if were state of the art. They don't because it isn't.

Your eyes must be painted on i said it was a starting point and quite personally i view for a first rebuild its an ample number as i pointed out the major lessons lernt on this motor is building and maintianing it which obviously is an aspect of the hobby you dont seem to pay any attention too.

Quote from my previous post "Also im accounting this will be his first modifed car im suggest a rather sedate one for his first attempt WHICH I ALSO MADE VERY CLEAR. Its often not a very good idea to give a late teen a 500+hp car ive seen some horrific crashes in my time when they had 150-hp cars and also being young this motor will not be as thirsty so it will drain his wages (an experiance i hard lernt on my own falcon) but again you just started flapping your gums about power never taking these things into consideration."

Are you even responding to me? I never said once they where better in anyway shape or form the only thing I pointed out is what a no shit sherlock moment you had when you pointed out your 11 year older, .8 litre smaller, less areodynamic, non injected, all iron motor, archaich suspension setup and of unknown state of tune....ect ect is slower then your camaro the only thing i remotly said in its defence was your known to bullshit, which you are known to do and im saying that in refrence to the fact we know your camaro is modified it is unkown wether the mustang was and really there isnt a massive diffrence Factory GT mustangs of that period pulled low 14s and your camaro pulled what a mid to low 12 and its sounds like your trying to say it broke the sound barrier when realistically its 2 seconds which isnt a hard toask to get out of a 302 few swap meet parts and you can easily make those seconds up.

Essentially that was a spam post it didnt actually respond to anything I said this guy wants to rebuild this car and your posting crate motors in here? Progress cant and isnt denied and your posting fanboyish posts on ls1s when for engines are direct bolt in conversions for this car.

[harddrivin1le]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Your eyes must be painted on i said it was a starting point and quite personally i view for a first rebuild its an ample number as i pointed out the major lessons lernt on this motor is building and maintianing it which obviously is an aspect of the hobby you dont seem to pay any attention too.

Quote from my previous post "Also im accounting this will be his first modifed car im suggest a rather sedate one for his first attempt WHICH I ALSO MADE VERY CLEAR. Its often not a very good idea to give a late teen a 500+hp car ive seen some horrific crashes in my time when they had 150-hp cars and also being young this motor will not be as thirsty so it will drain his wages (an experiance i hard lernt on my own falcon) but again you just started flapping your gums about power never taking these things into consideration."

Are you even responding to me? I never said once they where better in anyway shape or form the only thing I pointed out is what a no shit sherlock moment you had when you pointed out your 11 year older, .8 litre smaller, less areodynamic, non injected, all iron motor, archaich suspension setup and of unknown state of tune....ect ect is slower then your camaro the only thing i remotly said in its defence was your known to bullshit, which you are known to do and im saying that in refrence to the fact we know your camaro is modified it is unkown wether the mustang was and really there isnt a massive diffrence Factory GT mustangs of that period pulled low 14s and your camaro pulled what a mid to low 12 and its sounds like your trying to say it broke the sound barrier when realistically its 2 seconds which isnt a hard toask to get out of a 302 few swap meet parts and you can easily make those seconds up.

Essentially that was a spam post it didnt actually respond to anything I said this guy wants to rebuild this car and your posting crate motors in here? Progress cant and isnt denied and your posting fanboyish posts on ls1s when for engines are direct bolt in conversions for this car.

Why are you trying to "prove" that a 46 year old Ford small block with laughable valve angles (20 degrees) and block-limiting cylinder head geometry can compete in any way with a modern GM small-block?

It can't. The fact that your only arguments consists of multiple paragraphs that are thoroughly devoid of objective, EMPIRICAL facts proves it.

503 Gross HP with nothing more than a VERY MODEST (.525" lift, 112 degree LSA, 218/227 duration) cam swap and different valve springs. New Dog, Old Trick

Try meeting/beating that with ANY old Ford engine. It ain't gonna' happen, bud.

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by harddrivin1le

Why are you trying to "prove" that a 46 year old Ford small block with laughable valve angles (20 degrees) and block-limiting cylinder head geometry can compete in any way with a modern GM small-block?

Heres the clincher im not there is no point im saying it does your the one whos trying to prove somthing here. Im saying for the 3rd time its a good first rebuild is this a hard concept to get?

The fact that you are responding with links of a product that isnt easy to bolt into the car in queastion means you obviously dont care about the subject matter and the fact that you are posting proof that this motor is seeing the benafit of many many years more work is proof you are not actually reading these things that im typeing.

You obviously suffer from a bad case of selective vision where you only see what you wish to see now if your done wasteing my time I have much better things to do.

(I cussed to a small degree in my previous edit and I realised that would mean id sink to your level)

[harddrivin1le]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

...
(I cussed to a small degree in my previous edit and I realised that would mean id sink to your level)

503 Gross HP from this LS1 fitted with nothing other than a modest cam and LS6 valve springs:

New Dog, Old Trick

No 302 Ford in anything that resembles truly streetable form can touch that - regardless of how many parts you throw at it.


This normally aspirated, competition prepped, stock displacement (346 cid) LS1 produced 602 HP with a relatively modest 11.2:1 CR, AFR heads, a race spec cam grind and various internal upgrades: http://www.rose-tech.com/pubstuff/148-0508-LS12.pdf



Modern RPO engines would be making a lot more power if modern emissions requirements weren't limiting cam duration and overlap (thereby robbing power).

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by harddrivin1le

No 302 Ford in anything that resembles truly streetable form can touch that - regardless of how many parts you throw at it.

for the 4th time I never actually said it would and also for the 4th time its an easy and managble rebuild are you even reading this or are you just trolling for a response?

[harddrivin1le]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

for the 4th time I never actually said it would and also for the 4th time its an easy and managble rebuild are you even reading this or are you just trolling for a response?

Nope, I'm not trolling.

I'm just showing you what happens when aftermarket parts (including heads) are bolted onto a stock displacement, normally aspirated LS1.

602 HP. Not bad, huh?

And the engine weighs about 480 pounds fully dressed (including flywheel and all engine accessories).

[ThisBlood147]

Unless the OP is building some kind of street freak or a drag car.....I can't find a good reason for spending the time and money to put an LS7 in that car. I'd rather have a bolt-in Ford motor making less power than go through all that drama.......especially if its my first time doing a motor swap.

I mean, yea......one could build a street grown LS1 that would embarrass an LS7, but it wouldn't be any more streetable than a "balls to the wall" built 302 or 351. I know, I've ridden in a 450+rwhp LS1 T/A. It's not something I'd like to drive in traffic on a daily basis.

Besides.....a Ford motor belongs in a Mustang. Anything else is selling your soul to the devil........ESPECIALLY when we're talking about a classic '68. You want to do a "heretic" Ford body-SBC combo......get an old Fox chassis or SN95 Mustang. They're a dime a dozen.

My votes:

1. Old school big block..........428CJ
2. Old school small block.......351C
3. Modern day Ford (if you MUST have a contemporary motor)..............4.6 DOHC Mach 1 motor

[Quiggs]

Originally Posted by ThisBlood147

Unless the OP is building some kind of street freak or a drag car.....I can't find a good reason for spending the time and money to put an LS7 in that car. I'd rather have a bolt-in Ford motor making less power than go through all that drama.......especially if its my first time doing a motor swap.

I mean, yea......one could build a street grown LS1 that would embarrass an LS7, but it wouldn't be any more streetable than a "balls to the wall" built 302 or 351. I know, I've ridden in a 450+rwhp LS1 T/A. It's not something I'd like to drive in traffic on a daily basis.

Besides.....a Ford motor belongs in a Mustang. Anything else is selling your soul to the devil........ESPECIALLY when we're talking about a classic '68. You want to do a "heretic" Ford body-SBC combo......get an old Fox chassis or SN95 Mustang. They're a dime a dozen.

My votes:

1. Old school big block..........428CJ
2. Old school small block.......351C
3. Modern day Ford (if you MUST have a contemporary motor)..............4.6 DOHC Mach 1 motor

Sissy.

[ThisBlood147]

Originally Posted by Quiggs

Sissy.

LMAO. It had nothing to do with the power level. I drive a 400+rwhp car of my own. But the cam profile in that T/A did not make it a pleasant car to drive in heavy traffic. A great track or weekend car, for sure. But something that I'd drive everyday around town or in inclement weather.....forget that.

[kingofthering]

Originally Posted by ThisBlood147

3. Modern day Ford (if you MUST have a contemporary motor)..............4.6 DOHC Mach 1 motor

You sir, are wrong.


Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-6007-GT**]

Now that I would want in a Mustang.

[ThisBlood147]

Originally Posted by kingofthering

You sir, are wrong.


Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-6007-GT**]

Now that I would want in a Mustang.

Umm.........yep. I, uh..............can't argue with that one.

[Fleet 500]

Originally Posted by ThisBlood147

Besides.....a Ford motor belongs in a Mustang. Anything else is selling your soul to the devil........ESPECIALLY when we're talking about a classic '68. You want to do a "heretic" Ford body-SBC combo......get an old Fox chassis or SN95 Mustang. They're a dime a dozen.

Definitely agree. A '68 engine in a '68 Mustang would look "right."

My votes:

1. Old school big block..........428CJ
2. Old school small block.......351C
3. Modern day Ford (if you MUST have a contemporary motor)..............4.6 DOHC Mach 1 motor

I would choose #1 or #2. The 351C would be fun but I would really like the torque of the 428CJ.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by ThisBlood147

Unless the OP is building some kind of street freak or a drag car.....I can't find a good reason for spending the time and money to put an LS7 in that car. I'd rather have a bolt-in Ford motor making less power than go through all that drama.......especially if its my first time doing a motor swap.

I mean, yea......one could build a street grown LS1 that would embarrass an LS7, but it wouldn't be any more streetable than a "balls to the wall" built 302 or 351. I know, I've ridden in a 450+rwhp LS1 T/A. It's not something I'd like to drive in traffic on a daily basis.

Besides.....a Ford motor belongs in a Mustang. Anything else is selling your soul to the devil........ESPECIALLY when we're talking about a classic '68. You want to do a "heretic" Ford body-SBC combo......get an old Fox chassis or SN95 Mustang. They're a dime a dozen.

My votes:

1. Old school big block..........428CJ
2. Old school small block.......351C
3. Modern day Ford (if you MUST have a contemporary motor)..............4.6 DOHC Mach 1 motor

Which more or less goes back to my post. A good 351W or 302 would give you plenty of pleasure. A 351C (technically considered a mid-block, not a small-block, as it's a combination of small- and big-block designs) would be great as well, but would require a degree of modification in a '68 that would make it less practical than a 351W. If he really wants big cubes, a 392W would give a pretty easy 500fwhp in streetable form and is bolt-in as long as he watches his air filter height. Even an FE block, which was a factory option in the 390, but was also available as a 428 or 427 would be as cost effective on an absolute basis to install and cheaper on a cost per HP basis than a Cleveland motor. Depending on how long he drives it, a 351C
may make up for some of it, but they are by no means terribly efficient with 4v heads either...my Dad's Mach 1 with a 351CJ and 5-speed got 13mpg average.

The Mod Motors will fit, but even the SOHC motors require a ton of custom work on the shock towers to make the wide heads fit in there, the DOHC becomes even more of a one-off affair. See above for cost-effectiveness.