View Full Version : A2-H2 - A Snapshot of the Future for Audi
QuattroMan
12-10-2004, 07:21 AM
A thought-provoking new hydrogen-powered prototype based on the pioneering Audi A2 hatchback is the latest advance from the brand famed for Vorsprung durch Technik. Following in the footsteps of the exceptionally fuel efficient, 94mpg A2 1.2 TDI, the A2-H2 fuel cell hybrid emits nothing but pure water vapour, yet offers performance similar to a current petrol-powered A2, arguably making the aluminium-bodied compact the ultimate city car.
I for one would like to see this car in the states....
RedWingsFanG
12-10-2004, 08:14 AM
0. Hi Quattroman
1. I don't like the A2 at all, sorry, but that's my honest opinion.
2: I still think that we see gasoline and diesel cars for some years to come. It needs more time to introduce alternatives in cars that are usable by all people (price, fuel stations etc.)
QuattroMan
12-10-2004, 09:09 AM
0. Hi Quattroman
1. I don't like the A2 at all, sorry, but that's my honest opinion.
2: I still think that we see gasoline and diesel cars for some years to come. It needs more time to introduce alternatives in cars that are usable by all people (price, fuel stations etc.)
heyyyy red !how are you men ?where have been good to hear from you...really you don't like a2 ? I don't know I radar have Audi here then dose junks from Japan.....
Spastik_Roach
12-10-2004, 01:10 PM
I love A2's. Such awesome looking cars. Hydrogen is the way to go. Aslong as we can still have powerful engines! But is hydrogen exspensive?
Quiggs
12-10-2004, 03:06 PM
Hydrogen is a great idea. But it isn't feasible. At least not for 20 or so years. The technology to make engines run with it is there, but the infrastructure isn't. How many hydrogen stations are there in your area? None. (I don't know of any car actually on the market that's powered by hydrogen) Then there's the tech side. How many mechanics can work on these engines? And how expensive are the tools and parts?
I'd like to see this kind of technology catch on. But at this point, it's not realistic.
Matra et Alpine
12-10-2004, 03:38 PM
Where there is a need it can be achieved !
LPG is available in nearly EVERY gas station in the UK.
A few years back it was never heard of.
It's amazing what half price does for customer choice :)
danno
12-10-2004, 03:47 PM
the A2 is a pretty cool car IMO.
Coventrysucks
12-10-2004, 03:55 PM
Hydrogen is a great idea. But it isn't feasible. At least not for 20 or so years.
Ford intend to be selling hydrogen powered cars by 2012.
As for the Audi - hardly a new idea is it?
I like the way they arrive late to the H20 party, but still make out as if the idea is somehow original and innovative.
danno
12-10-2004, 03:58 PM
Hydrogen is a great idea. But it isn't feasible. At least not for 20 or so years. The technology to make engines run with it is there, but the infrastructure isn't. How many hydrogen stations are there in your area? None. (I don't know of any car actually on the market that's powered by hydrogen) Then there's the tech side. How many mechanics can work on these engines? And how expensive are the tools and parts?
I'd like to see this kind of technology catch on. But at this point, it's not realistic.
how many mechanics new how to fix an internal combustion engine when they made it? how many petrol stations was there?
only when people start making hydrogen powered cars will people actually learn how to fix them, and put hydrogen fuel stations in.
johnnyperl
12-10-2004, 04:04 PM
As for the Audi - hardly a new idea is it?
I like the way they arrive late to the H20 party, but still make out as if the idea is somehow original and innovative.
exactly what i was gonna say. hydrogen cars have existed for many years.
and secondly, this is completley pointless.
why didnt they spend the R&D working on a hybrid diesel, something which they could sell now and actually make a difference in emissions and consumption.
hydrogen is great in cars since there are no emissions but you must consider that the hydrogen must be removed from the water first which takes electricity, which in most parts of the world is still produced in very dirty ways.
danno
12-10-2004, 04:06 PM
exactly what i was gonna say. hydrogen cars have existed for many years.
and secondly, this is completley pointless.
why didnt they spend the R&D working on a hybrid diesel, something which they could sell now and actually make a difference in emissions and consumption.
hydrogen is great in cars since there are no emissions but you must consider that the hydrogen must be removed from the water first which takes electricity, which in most parts of the world is still produced in very dirty ways.
its not only cleanliness that theyre worried about. i think they might be slightly worried about the fuel left in the world (or lack of it)
johnnyperl
12-10-2004, 04:08 PM
its not only cleanliness that theyre worried about. i think they might be slightly worried about the fuel left in the world (or lack of it)
diesel can be made from any type of vegtable oil.
danno
12-10-2004, 04:14 PM
diesel can be made from any type of vegtable oil.
seriously??
i didnt know that. thats cool.
Matra et Alpine
12-10-2004, 04:16 PM
Hydro-electric and geothermal are both cheap energy in some parts of the world :)
Expect Scotland to become the hydrogen-capital of the world just as once we were the oil capital !!!!!
Coventrysucks
12-10-2004, 04:20 PM
I read somewhere that someone was developing a hyper-efficient solar panel type thing that produced large ammounts of hydrogen via some molecular or chemical trickery.
Cannot remember anything more specific than that though.
Mustang
12-10-2004, 04:22 PM
*sigh*
I really dont like the introduction of cars that arent powered by petrol or diesel :(
Coventrysucks
12-10-2004, 06:18 PM
*sigh*
I really dont like the introduction of cars that arent powered by petrol or diesel :(
You'll be walking everywhere when the black stuff becomes prohibitively expensive?
ZeTurbo
12-10-2004, 06:21 PM
Hydro-electric and geothermal are both cheap energy in some parts of the world :)
Expect Scotland to become the hydrogen-capital of the world just as once we were the oil capital !!!!!
im sorry but scotland will not be the hyddro electric capital of the world. that will be canada. up here they have the largest reserves of water in the world. most of canada's electricity comes from hydro-electrical plants and they are expliting but a fraction of the potential of hydroelectricitty in the country.
sorry but scotland will still have to settle for #2... :p
QuattroMan
12-10-2004, 06:25 PM
You'll be walking everywhere when the black stuff becomes prohibitively expensive?
how long do you think this will take? this is not a sarcastic question,how much time do we have to see oil actually get low in off to see it?
ZeTurbo
12-10-2004, 06:31 PM
how much time do we have to see oil actually get low in off to see it?
i dont understand what you are asking
Coventrysucks
12-10-2004, 06:46 PM
how long do you think this will take? this is not a sarcastic question,how much time do we have to see oil actually get low in off to see it?
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if oil became an impractical proposition for fuelling personal transportation devices within my lifetime.
It is bad enough now, but in the coming decades developing countries such as India and China are going to want more and more oil, not just for cars, but for normal energy usage. And there are a lot of people in India and China.
Why don't we let the poorest people have the oil, and hence affordable energy, and we move onto more renewable and ecologically sound methods?
Is there a good reason, apart from the current lack of hydrogen, why we shouldn't use it?
For example, if by magic a huge hydrogen infrastructure sprang up overnight, what reason would there be for the continued use of fossil fuels?
Except to power supercars, of course
QuattroMan
12-10-2004, 06:47 PM
i dont understand what you are asking
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang
*sigh*
I really dont like the introduction of cars that arent powered by petrol or diesel
You'll be walking everywhere when the black stuff becomes prohibitively expensive?
__________________
Coventry does't suck really.
It could be better though.
the only way gas will get expensive is two ways 1) more demand for gas 2)when oil is running out....
RedWingsFanG
12-11-2004, 03:10 AM
I agree with what Coventysucks says, but he also mentioned the problems.
There is no infrastructure to use those alternative fuels nowadays.
I currently read a big article about hydrogen cars, and there are still a lot problems that must be solved.
But it's good that developers make up their mind about the future!
Mustang
12-11-2004, 03:44 AM
You'll be walking everywhere when the black stuff becomes prohibitively expensive?
Not true my friend there is still illigal furl to be made :p
QuattroMan
12-11-2004, 09:39 AM
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if oil became an impractical proposition for fuelling personal transportation devices within my lifetime.
It is bad enough now, but in the coming decades developing countries such as India and China are going to want more and more oil, not just for cars, but for normal energy usage. And there are a lot of people in India and China.
Why don't we let the poorest people have the oil, and hence affordable energy, and we move onto more renewable and ecologically sound methods?
Is there a good reason, apart from the current lack of hydrogen, why we shouldn't use it?
For example, if by magic a huge hydrogen infrastructure sprang up overnight, what reason would there be for the continued use of fossil fuels?
Except to power supercars, of course
you have a very good point there,,but one thing about real car guys would never except h2 engine in there cars, I for one no way I love the sound of V8.I don't know its tuff on one side I hate to see earth getting abused like we do and the other hand I like have a car with gas.....
Coventrysucks
12-11-2004, 07:30 PM
you have a very good point there,,but one thing about real car guys would never except h2 engine in there cars, I for one no way I love the sound of V8.I don't know its tuff on one side I hate to see earth getting abused like we do and the other hand I like have a car with gas.....
BMW have an internal combustion engine that burns hydrogen.
Not very efficient though, although I don't know if that was purely down to the fact that the engine had to burn petrol aswell, or if there are fundamental limitations on the ammount of power you can get out of hydrogen.
QuattroMan
12-11-2004, 08:55 PM
BMW have an internal combustion engine that burns hydrogen.
Not very efficient though, although I don't know if that was purely down to the fact that the engine had to burn petrol aswell, or if there are fundamental limitations on the ammount of power you can get out of hydrogen.
do you think they'll ever come out with hydrogen engine that would sound like the V8 engine? I don't know this might be a stupid question, but I would like to know, I personally never seen a hydrogen engine....
Coventrysucks
12-11-2004, 09:05 PM
do you think they'll ever come out with hydrogen engine that would sound like the V8 engine? I don't know this might be a stupid question, but I would like to know, I personally never seen a hydrogen engine....
It is a "normal" BMW V12(?) petrol engine that has been converted to burn hydrogen as well.
I see no reason why it would sound radically different to the petrol version. It may have a slightly different note, but that could probably be altered with exhaust tuning.
BMW have an internal combustion engine that burns hydrogen.
Not very efficient though, although I don't know if that was purely down to the fact that the engine had to burn petrol aswell, or if there are fundamental limitations on the ammount of power you can get out of hydrogen.
I remember seeing that, a few years ago now though, must've been mid 90's? Hydrogen has a lower 'energy density' than petrol, so it will give a lower power output when used in an IC engine. Plus theres also the issue of carrying large quantities of compressed Hydrogen gas around :)
RedWingsFanG
12-12-2004, 05:16 AM
Yep, carrying hydrogen gas is dangerous.
It has to be stored with very deep temperatures, and it volatilizes, so even if ya don't drive, your tank gets more and more empty. And I can remember manufaturers saying that it uses a lot of energy to make the kind of gas that is useable for the engines.
Plus, a lot of garages don't allow gas cars to be parked inside.
A lot of further questions must be solved, but it's a step in the future.
QuattroMan
12-12-2004, 10:50 AM
I remember seeing that, a few years ago now though, must've been mid 90's? Hydrogen has a lower 'energy density' than petrol, so it will give a lower power output when used in an IC engine. Plus theres also the issue of carrying large quantities of compressed Hydrogen gas around :)
this is what majority of car guys that I know are concerned about, that no matter what it will never have a high output engine,,, I say this will be remain to be seen if it will or not, I hope it will....like have a cleaner air :)