Crime in South Africa...

[taz_rocks_miami]

A friend who moved from Australia to South Africa sent me this link about how bad crime is in South Africa. I'm trying to talk her into moving back to Australia. :eek: And I thought Mexico was bad!!

http://crimexposouthafrica.org/

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

It's really bad there. I have an anecdote to share.

Whilst in Prague, my cousin had a friend from South Africa over. As you may know, the Czech Republic is well-known for owning a lot of old bangers and shit heaps, i.e. the Skoda Estelle and the Trabant. The wonders of Eastern Bloc technology... :rolleyes:

One day, whilst walking down the street about 300m away from my cousin's house, one of the aforementioned shitheaps backfired. The SA friend dropped to his knees and elbows and put his hands behind his head. He was convinced that a firefight had started, and therefore had acted as he would have done back home.

It seems funny on face value, but if you think about it, you realise that there must be some serious issues for people to be that conditioned to violence...

[ScionDriver]

It's really bad there. I have an anecdote to share.

Whilst in Prague, my cousin had a friend from South Africa over. As you may know, the Czech Republic is well-known for owning a lot of old bangers and shit heaps, i.e. the Skoda Estelle and the Trabant. The wonders of Eastern Bloc technology... :rolleyes:

One day, whilst walking down the street about 300m away from my cousin's house, one of the aforementioned shitheaps backfired. The SA friend dropped to his knees and elbows and put his hands behind his head. He was convinced that a firefight had started, and therefore had acted as he would have done back home.

It seems funny on face value, but if you think about it, you realise that there must be some serious issues for people to be that conditioned to violence...

My God, I have heard stuff like that before (like if you read the book There Are No Children Here) it's scary to think about growing up somewhere like that. Its scary to even to know that exisits.

[drakkie]

It seems even worse like the worst parts of Rotterdam.... I heard things that if you just walk through a street you'd get robbed twice :(

[blingbling]

It seems even worse like the worst parts of Rotterdam.... I heard things that if you just walk through a street you'd get robbed twice :(Getting robbed is not as bad as getting killed...

[QuattroMan]

A friend who moved from Australia to South Africa sent me this link about how bad crime is in South Africa. I'm trying to talk her into moving back to Australia. :eek: And I thought Mexico was bad!!

http://crimexposouthafrica.org/
well!!! once an animal always an animal,Africa is one of the poorest country and we have white people living there with expensive stuff,what do you think it going to happen,,,just remember you cant change wiled animals..

[Jack_Bauer]

well!!! once an animal always an animal,Africa is one of the poorest country and we have white people living there with expensive stuff,what do you think it going to happen,,,just remember you cant change wiled animals..
Oh deary me. :(

[blingbling]

Uh, wow.

[taz_rocks_miami]

well!!! once an animal always an animal,Africa is one of the poorest country and we have white people living there with expensive stuff,what do you think it going to happen,,,just remember you cant change wiled animals..

I can't believe you just said that.


EDIT: My friend said she's moving back to Australia by Christamas. YAY!!!!

[6speed]

well!!! once an animal always an animal,Africa is one of the poorest country and we have white people living there with expensive stuff,what do you think it going to happen,,,just remember you cant change wiled animals..

Omg.:eek:

That's horrid man, it's going to take alot of work to earn respect back from some people here.

[The_Canuck]

well!!! once an animal always an animal,Africa is one of the poorest country and we have white people living there with expensive stuff,what do you think it going to happen,,,just remember you cant change wiled animals..
Mabye you should elaborate...unless you meant what i think you meant.

[QuattroMan]

I can't believe you just said that.


EDIT: My friend said she's moving back to Australia by Christamas. YAY!!!!
Hector my friend how are you bro!!!! long time !what I'm trying to say is,this is what happens when most people are poor things like this well happen, we should not be surprised it all..sad but true.

[Kooper]

Well, it's sad. South Africa has so much potential, not only the country itself, but the people inhabiting it.

It's a great country messed up by only a handful of misfits. And race has nothing to do with it either, everyone's feeling it.

Just out of curiousity, where else in the world have you heard of 2 month-old babies being raped? Or people's faces being dipped in boiling-hot oil? Or people getting shot when driving on the freeway by peds? Or boulders being dropped on cars from bridges? Or people's ankles getting hacked off just for fun? All this is done by thieves, rapists and murderers who are not caught 85% of the time, and even when caught sit in jail for no more than 2 years. That's of course if the case even makes it to court, since the police usually "lose" the dossier long before then. The cops aren't immune to crime either, more than 500 (officially, most believe the actual figure to be far higher) murders of police-men and -women for this year alone so far.
And the government has stopped releasing official crime-figures in 2004. Why?

You kind of get the feeling that the people are beyond scared now. They're getting pi$$ed off, and it gets worse with every passing day.

In spite of all this, you still get people there that greet you with a smile. People are still full of hope there, still determined to make the most of what they have. People that aren't afraid to live.

Humbling to say the least.

[The_Canuck]

Well, it's sad. South Africa has so much potential, not only the country itself, but the people inhabiting it.

It's a great country messed up by only a handful of misfits. And race has nothing to do with it either, everyone's feeling it.

Just out of curiousity, where else in the world have you heard of 2 month-old babies being raped? Or people's faces being dipped in boiling-hot oil? Or people getting shot when driving on the freeway by peds? Or boulders being dropped on cars from bridges? Or people's ankles getting hacked off just for fun? All this is done by thieves, rapists and murderers who are not caught 85% of the time, and even when caught sit in jail for no more than 2 years. That's of course if the case even makes it to court, since the police usually "lose" the dossier long before then. The cops aren't immune to crime either, more than 500 (officially, most believe the actual figure to be far higher) murders of police-men and -women for this year alone so far.
And the government has stopped releasing official crime-figures in 2004. Why?

You kind of get the feeling that the people are beyond scared now. They're getting pi$$ed off, and it gets worse with every passing day.

In spite of all this, you still get people there that greet you with a smile. People are still full of hope there, still determined to make the most of what they have. People that aren't afraid to live.

Humbling to say the least.

That happened here actually, girl got here face smashed in by some moron teenager. Terrible stuff.

[The_Canuck]

Hector my friend how are you bro!!!! long time !what I'm trying to say is,this is what happens when most people are poor things like this well happen, we should not be surprised it all..sad but true.
I see what you mean now, were all animals its just that peticular mix of very poor and very rich that brings it out. I think some people thought you were being a little racist.

[Kooper]

That happened here actually, girl got here face smashed in by some moron teenager. Terrible stuff.


On a daily basis...?


And just so we're clear: In many cases, the apparent "thieves" that commit the crimes end up taking nothing at all... How could a case of rich and poor have anything to do with it?

[QuattroMan]

I see what you mean now, were all animals its just that peticular mix of very poor and very rich that brings it out. I think some people thought you were being a little racist.
sorry my bad,i did not want it to sound like that it all,I'm not racist it all just racist towards d!!khead people,,

[DesmoRob]

I'm not racist, I hate everyone. JUST JOKES PEOPLE, CALM DOWN:p .

[nota]

I have heard that SA can indeed be a worry. Maybe as bad if not worse is Papua New Guinea - apart from constantly running the risk of being sliced 'n diced, you might end up being cooked as well :eek:

Reminds me of the joke about mid-flight meals:

When flying Qantas you may get served a pie for lunch, while American gives you the hotdog

However with PNG Airways the stewardess comes along and offers you up her arm .. :p

I hear in PNG these days the Rascals are not just running amok in the highlands as usual, but are now regularly rioting (and worse) right into the downtown CBD of their capitol city of Port Moresby

Can be stunningly beautiful for a visit if you're game .. but to live there? Not bloody likely! A friend recently got back after a 3 year posting (we thought we might never get to see her again) with some sobering tales about life and death in the Failed State of PNG :(

[kigango123]

well!!! once an animal always an animal,Africa is one of the poorest country and we have white people living there with expensive stuff,what do you think it going to happen,,,just remember you cant change wiled animals..

my recollection of africa having lived there for almost 16 years almost my whole life is much more peaceful than living in america in the two year i have been here ,

in africa, the only person who is feared is a hustler . what about here?

[kigango123]

Well, it's sad. South Africa has so much potential, not only the country itself, but the people inhabiting it.

It's a great country messed up by only a handful of misfits. And race has nothing to do with it either, everyone's feeling it.

Just out of curiousity, where else in the world have you heard of 2 month-old babies being raped? Or people's faces being dipped in boiling-hot oil? Or people getting shot when driving on the freeway by peds? Or boulders being dropped on cars from bridges? Or people's ankles getting hacked off just for fun? All this is done by thieves, rapists and murderers who are not caught 85% of the time, and even when caught sit in jail for no more than 2 years. That's of course if the case even makes it to court, since the police usually "lose" the dossier long before then. The cops aren't immune to crime either, more than 500 (officially, most believe the actual figure to be far higher) murders of police-men and -women for this year alone so far.
And the government has stopped releasing official crime-figures in 2004. Why?

You kind of get the feeling that the people are beyond scared now. They're getting pi$$ed off, and it gets worse with every passing day.

In spite of all this, you still get people there that greet you with a smile. People are still full of hope there, still determined to make the most of what they have. People that aren't afraid to live.

Humbling to say the least.

by the way, from what rock did you drag this story.

[QuattroMan]

my recollection of africa having lived there for almost 16 years almost my whole life is much more peaceful than living in america in the two year i have been here , with the planes and the bombs and the terrorists and the rednecks and the white and black.

in africa, the only person who is feared is a hustler . what about here?
im sorry you're so unlucky bro!!!!:) as far as the planes an terrorists goes,we're doing what they to us.what about here?

[kigango123]

im sorry you're so unlucky bro!!!!:) as far as the planes an terrorists goes,we're doing what they to us.what about here?

so re-introducing the death sentence isn't good enough for you.
what is it that you propose

[Kooper]

by the way, from what rock did you drag this story.


Not sure what you mean. If by "rock" you mean Planet Earth, then that one. If by "drag this story" you mean calling it as I saw it, then that's what I meant.

And if your intention is to start a mudslinging contest, I'll pass, thanks.

[QuattroMan]

so re-introducing the death sentence isn't good enough for you.
what is it that you propose
lets see what do i propose,i should not share it with you,I'll get in trouble..:D

[kigango123]

i am on the computer right now and my mom is watching this Mark Karr thing on cnn .i do not want to Mudsling but you talk about africans as
well!!! wiled animals..
and i really wonder were the " wiledeness" is.

[Kooper]

You know what, this thread is beginning to smell too political. I'll withdraw with a parting shot:

SA's a great place and has wonderful people. Is there trouble? Yes. Will they overcome it? They always do.

[taz_rocks_miami]

You know what, this thread is beginning to smell too political.

That's nothing new on UCP. You should see some of the debates we've had here. :)

I'll withdraw with a parting shot: SA's a great place and has wonderful people. Is there trouble? Yes. Will they overcome it? They always do.

All countries are capable of overcoming their problems. Sadly, you don't always suceed due to lack of political will by those that can affect a change. :(

I'm just glad my friend is going home in December. :D

[john14]

I believe some South African car owners have a special "flame thrower" device connected to the side of the car and the owner of the car can press a button and "roast" a criminal who is attempting to steal their car (car-jacking). :eek:

Also, if anybody has lived or been in Africa for a few weeks or a few months/years, can they briefly answer these questions?
Is Africa really as terrible as people say it is in terms of most African people living with or enduring a terrible standard of living due to diseases like AIDS and malaria, poverty, lack of services and people dieing from starvation? Do a sigificant percentage of African people enjoy a satisfactory standard of living?

[taz_rocks_miami]

I believe some South African car owners have a special "flame thrower" device connected to the side of the car and the owner of the car can press a button and "roast" a criminal who is attempting to steal their car (car-jacking). :eek:

I saw that on a news report once. They were interviewing the owner of the company that sells that anti-car jacking "flame thower", my first thought...well my second thought was "damn is that legal?" My first thought was Holy S..t!!! It was a while ago I saw that report, I don't know if it ever came to market.

Also, if anybody has lived or been in Africa for a few weeks or a few months, can they briefly answer these questions?
Is Africa really as terrible as people say it is in terms of most African people living with or enduring a terrible standard of living due to diseases like AIDS and malaria, poverty, lack of services and people dieing from starvation? Do a sigificant percentage of African people enjoy a satisfactory standard of living?

The African continent reminds me a lot of Latin America but worse. The affluent outnumber the less furtunate by a large number...but worse.

In Latin America...Mexico for example, there is rampant poverty as in Africa. And a very high crime rate as in Africa. I've noticed that the biggest contributor to crime is the lack of attention of the authorities towards the problem. Why, because they are corrupt. They work in conjuction with the criminals and take "their cut. It doensn't just happen at "the top" as some might think. It starts with the local cop taking bribes from the local hoods and moving all the way up through the chain of command. That's why we have such high crime rates and I suspect the Africans have a similar problem

What I'm saying is that crime isn't caused by poverty, the thugs and the police make a "good" living from it. The problem is corruption and greed. We have the same problems as the Africans as lack of services, health and even starvation. But they seem to have it worse than anyone else. As I said before, corruption and greed are to blame. :(

[Kooper]

I think people are to blame. That sounds silly, I know, but that's what I think.

There's bound to be a stuff-up wherever a human is involved. Why are there so many dictators in Africa? Because people allow that to happen (and I'm not talking about the rest of the world here, but the individual coutries where these things take place). The bad people are only as strong as the good people allow them to be...


EDIT: And the flame-thrower was advertized, though I doubt it actually exists. I'm pretty sure if anyone used such a device in South Africa, the hijacker would go-free with remuneration and whoever owned such a device would end up in prison for breaking a human-rights law...

[clutch-monkey]

^ maybe not, but one device i have seen is an airbag mounted into the roof on the passenegr side of the car - it is activated by a button under the control of the driver, instantly knocking out any hijackers who have jumped into the passenger seat.

i'd love to have it for annoying passengers in general...

[whiteballz]

one ive seen is to electrify the door handles...

and on the whole scale of africa, so many live in a sad state, it really is quite upsetting

[IBrake4Rainbows]

well!!! once an animal always an animal,Africa is one of the poorest country and we have white people living there with expensive stuff,what do you think it going to happen,,,just remember you cant change wiled animals..

Most culturally insensitive quote ever. Misspelling gets a special mention.

South Africa has a huge disparity between the affluent and poor, which does lead to these situations. a symptom of an ineffective government perhaps?

The reason there are so many dictatorships in Africa is foreign backing and a general lack of education and information readily accessible to the people. it's a sad fact but Africa has been forgotten in the world.

Personally I would not go to South Africa voluntarily at the moment, especially Johannesburg - I've heard MANY stories.

I remember Top Gear did a few articles on Carjacking in South Africa a while back.....2000 or so IIRC. Most of the cars are stripped and sold for parts within 20 minutes of arriving at a venue, so the article says.

It's a worry when a situation gets THAT desperate.

[Rockefella]

The SA government has contacted me numerous times about my services and the de-corruption of the state.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

The SA government has contacted me numerous times about my services and the de-corruption of the state.

Let me guess - too busy getting drunk ;)

[Rockefella]

Let me guess - too busy getting drunk ;)
I'm not permanently drunk, just at night. Well, to tell you the truth I didn't drink last night (well, I haven't been to sleep yet), and when I do.. it's only enough for a buzz/fun.

However, the SA government hasn't offered me enough money, which is the real reason. The amount of pain that would be inflicted brings the ammunition bill to roughly $55,000.00

[IBrake4Rainbows]

....And there not paying you that much?

I see.

I never said you were perminantly drunk - how can you GET drunk if you already are there - i was just commenting on your reputation ;) your a teenager, your allowed to have fun :)

[Rockefella]

your a teenager, your allowed to have fun :)
I hate fun. When I see people having fun, I tell them to stop having fun. I want everyone to be miserable.

I like no one, just dislike some people less.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

<cough> EMO </cough>

[Rockefella]

<cough> EMO </cough>
Incorrect.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Hey, if the profile fits....

[Rockefella]

Hey, if the profile fits....
Stop it!

[willysjeep]

This is an old thread that i've dug up because i feel it needs an answer. The situation in SA did not change much since this thread started. I think it is even more stable now. Especially in places like certain parts of Johannesburg. But still........if you love life, stay out of these areas. There is enough people that will guide you around these places, to help you to stay alive. The average South African, white,black, coloured ,asian, etc do not want to be associated with the runts in the ghettos surviving on gangsterism, robbery and murder.
But then in every country in the world there is ghettos, gangsters, murderers, etc. So why pinpoint SA and try to use us as an example to show to the world . We live in piece here. The average guy wants piece, and those who thrive on crime, they stay together and will not move 'cause thats where they want to be.

Our only and biggest problem is the government and the very long all black gravytrain running up and down the country. Mulching and swallowing every high profit transaction on the books.
This is a piece that was published in a local newspaper.



This was a reply to an article, in the Natal Mercury (last week),
where the previously disadvantaged (Blacks) stated that it's not too
late for the previously advantaged (including whites, Indians and
Coloureds)to apologise for apartheid.

Check out the reply. Just too hot and so true.


Did anyone read the paper last week (Mercury) where the main headline
stated the following?


It's not too late for whites to say sorry for apartheid.............


Check the email that went around responding to the headline.
It's a Kick ass response!!!


'To the Previously Disadvantaged

We are sorry that our ancestors were intelligent, advanced and daring
enough to explore the wild oceans to discover new countries and develop them.

We are sorry that those who came before us took you out of the bush
and taught you that there was more to life than beating drums, killing
each other and chasing animals with sticks and stones.

We are sorry that they planned, funded and developed roads,towns,mines,
factories, airports and harbours, all of which you now
claim to be your long deprived inheritance giving you every right to
change and rename these at your discretion.

We are sorry that our parents taught us the value of small but strong
families, to not breed like rabbits and end up as underfed,
diseased,illiterate shack dwellers living in poverty.

We are sorry that when the evil apartheid government provided you
with schools, you decided they'd look better without windows or in
piles of ashes.*

We happily gave up those bad days of getting spanked in our all white
schools for doing something wrong and much prefer these days of
freedom where problems can be resolved with knives and guns.

We are sorry that it is hard to shake off the bitterness of the past
when you keep on raping, torturing and killing our friends and family
members, and then hide behind the fence of 'human rights' with smiles
on your faces.

We are sorry that we do not trust the government. We have no reason
to be so suspicious because none of these poor hard working
intellectuals have ever been involved in any form of corruption or
'irregularities'.

We are sorry that we do not trust the police force and, even though
they have openly admitted that they have lost the war against
crime and criminals, we should not be negative and just ignore their
corruption and carry on hoping for the best.

We are sorry that it is more important to you to have players of
colour in our national teams than winning games and promoting
patriotism. We know that sponsorship doesn't depend on a team's
success.

We are sorry that our border posts have been flung open and now left
you competing for jobs against illegal immigrants from our
beautiful neighbouring countries. All of them countries that have grown into
economic powerhouses after kicking out the 'settlers'.

We are sorry that we don't believe in witchcraft, beetroot and garlic
cures, urinating on street corners, virginity testing, slaughtering of
bulls in our back yards, trading women for cattle and other barbaric practices.

Maybe we just grew up differently.

We are sorry that your medical care, water supplies, roads, railways
and electricity supplies are going down the toilet because skilled

people who could have planned for and resolved these issues had to be
thrown away because they were of the wrong ethnic background and now
have to work in foreign countries where their skills are more needed.

We are so sorry that we'd like this country to fulfill its potential
so we can once again be proud South Africans.

The Previously Advantaged'

Ps. In the old regime...we had lights and water
________________________________________

[Matra et Alpine]

Wow a letter to a paper from a "true redbeck" Afrikaaner :)

SHeez you can blow so much factual holes through the whole thing it's not even fun to play the game :(

That's just sad that there are folks like that in any crountry :( Question is their an equivalent now of the Fox News network ??????

I'd have hoped by now that SA schools were teaching the value systems of the old tribal communities before "great white man" raped the country and peopl of their natural resources !!!

[willysjeep]

Wow a letter to a paper from a "true redbeck" Afrikaaner :)

??????

I'd have hoped by now that SA schools were teaching the value systems of the old tribal communities before "great white man" raped the country and peopl of their natural resources !!!I dont agree with you Matra, i grew up in this country and i know all the issues of all different races in SA. If the whiteys were so much in the wrong and raping the country......Why would this man then preach this.......

YouTube - Her name is "Ms. Ann" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuEc-nFULY8)

[Matra et Alpine]

I dont agree with you Matra, i grew up in this country and i know all the issues of all different races in SA.
Definately, my experiences was based on working their for amultinational and on numerous business trips. Lots of friends, MOST of whom moved out. So I do also know amny of the "reasons".
I was also there when SA used to ahve a free press before closed by Botha :( AND was there during Port Elizabeth riots - a PERFECT example of teh government NOT recognising the tribal divison that existed for centuries. Can't remember now the tribal groups, but basicaly sent the police in to assist during a "demonstration". Problem the police were 90% one tribe, the town demosntrators 90% another. History pre-dates white arrival. I always point out it woudl have been like asking the Rangers FC stewards to go and ask Celtic FC supporters to leave Celtic Park. It was inevitable and frankly I aske d many friends at the time did they not consider that it had been done DELIBERATALY that way by the government KNOWING it woudl result on tribal conflict they could then use to "blame" them. Botha coudl have tought GWB a lot of lessons on manipulation of the masses :( through "fear".
If the whiteys were so much in the wrong and raping the country
"whitey" :( bad racial reference there :(

Le me give one example I oft discussed/debated whilst in country.
THe Afrikaaner "defnse" on apartheid rule was their forefathers blood was spilled on the land and the were notwilling to give it up. Asking how and why that blood spilled and how much of everyone elses was mixed there usualy reached consensus. Plenty of "redneck sounth africans" around too tho' :)
......Why would this man then preach this.......

YouTube - Her name is "Ms. Ann" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuEc-nFULY8)
Erm for similar reasons as THIS guy preaches what he does.
(Not therouc, the disgusing Phelps family)
YouTube - Louis Theroux: The Most Hated Family in America [BBC] (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mT_WHiHaXdw&feature=related)

The are all IDIOTs and God really needs to wipe a-holes like that from the planet and especially do NOT let them "preach" racist BS from a pulpit.

Why do you let that person waste electrons in your computer by playing such RUBBISH. There are nutcases and cranks all over, do you take their nonsense as justification for personal views ???

"That Africa, big continent never built one boat that was sea worthy"
"No great cities were built" .. what a dick, the US didn't have that either !
Also typical obsession with captial measured in MONEY and goods rather than lifestyle. I've stopped the vidoe after hear "black folks dont know how to run no nation"... GWB proved a lot of white folks dont either !!!!

[Kooper]

Wow a letter to a paper from a "true redbeck" Afrikaaner :)

SHeez you can blow so much factual holes through the whole thing it's not even fun to play the game :(

That's just sad that there are folks like that in any crountry :( Question is their an equivalent now of the Fox News network ??????

I'd have hoped by now that SA schools were teaching the value systems of the old tribal communities before "great white man" raped the country and peopl of their natural resources !!!

I'll add my 2 cents as well:

The country is still being raped, but not by the evil, ominous "great white man" as you put it, but by the multi-national big businesses.

And FYI, it's not "redbeck", it's redneck, a direct translation of the Afrikaner term "rooinek", a term we (the evil, oppressive, country-raping Afrikaans-speaking white people) sometimes give to people of British origin. That's due to the SA sun having an unfortunate effect on people from that part of the world.

The term I believe you're looking for is probably "dirty Dutchmen". And I'm one of them.

[Matra et Alpine]

what ? I paraphrasing on it was being raped by the big white man - so first off do NOT put extremist BS comments like that in MY mouth.

We ( ie the first world ) DID take much more from all these countries than we actually gave them back -- or their was no point in colonising them to start with.

and BIG BIG FYI ... can't you spot a typo when it happens ? Hint the "n" key is next to the "b" key on grown up keyboards !!!

erm guess what ... the Afrikaans translation of red neck to rooinek is no great surprise and yet is NOT the source of the term. The "direct translation" happens the other way round I think you'll find :)

Scottish Covenanters signed up using their own blood, and many in the movement began wearing red pieces of cloth around their neck to signify their position to the public. They were referred to as rednecks. Guess where most of the population expansion in Africa and America came from ? The highland clearances :) More than 100 years before the Boer War.

However, I also think it would naturally spread in all countries referring to ALL caucasians ( usually European ) who went from cold climate to warm sunny clime.

Shame you call yourself in the present the "country-raping Afrikaans". I'd hope by recognising the errors of our ancestors we're able to leave those issue behind and move forward with a more balanced, intelligent approach.

ANd basically I spent years working with SAPO. ANd yes the rooineks who worked there were an embarrasment. Not biased - cos they were ENGLISH - but the English were IN GENERAL more understanding and "humane" about things. Yes, I know the history and why I'd got in a discussion about the blood spilled on the land.

I personally had demonstrated one of the methods for testing the line to remote exchanges This was rationalised as "THe kaffa out there cant understand instructions so this is how we test" .... they would get the remote guy to hold the line entering the exchange building and then they would wind a megger. If the guy screamed they knew the line was OK. This was a big laugh and NOBODY in the room mentioned it ... 'cept me , I'm a bolshie Scottish presbytarian humanist !!

This is geting a wee bit OT, BUT until we accept the mistakes made in our past then we limit our options for better futures.
Scottish minsters on missionary "work" did as much harm as a soldier with a bullet :(
I can accept the reasons WHY they chose that route at the time and also how we learned to do better

[Kooper]

what ? I never ONCE said it was being raped by the big white man - so first off do NOT put extremist BS comments like that in MY mouth.

If you say so. And I didn't try to put in in your mouth, just on your keyboard...

We ( ie the first world ) DID take much more from all these countries than we actually gave them back -- or their was no point in colonising them to start with.

True, true. I'm not saying the first world is exploiting Africa today though, I'm saying major corporations are, but I get your point. I never really got the whole first-world thing, but I suppose that's a discussion on it's own.

and BIG BIG FYI ... can't you spot a typo when it happens ? Hint the "n" key is next to the "b" key on grown up keyboards !!!

As it happens I can, and I did. But thanks for that.

erm guess what ... the Afrikaans translation of red neck to rooinek is no great surprise and yet is NOT the source of the term. The "direct translation" happens the other way round I think you'll find :)

Actually, I think you'll find, I know what "rooinek" implies, and it's not that. At least not to me and the Afrikaans-speaking people I know...

Scottish Covenanters signed up using their own blood, and many in the movement began wearing red pieces of cloth around their neck to signify their position to the public. They were referred to as rednecks. Guess where most of the population expansion in Africa and America came from ? The highland clearances :) More than 100 years before the Boer War.

And that ties in with the English "redneck" phrase I guess? Interesting.

However, I also think it would naturally spread in all countries referring to ALL caucasians ( usually European ) who went from cold climate to warm sunny clime.

Could very well be, though I think that probably has more to do with the English "redneck" than the Afrikaans "rooinek". Might be direct translations of eachother, but it seems not meaning the same thing.

Shame you call yourself in the present the "country-raping Afrikaans". I'd hope by recognising the errors of our ancestors we're able to leave those issue behind and move forward with a more balanced, intelligent approach.

Actually, that's the popular label we somehow just get associated with. If it was up to me I'd probably call us something different. I agree though, we should always strive to learn from past mistakes. It doesn't help if the world holds onto those mistakes come hell or high water though.
It's probably worth noting that one man's "intelligent" approach is another's imbecilic approach.

ANd basically I spent years working with SAPO. ANd yes the rooineks who worked there were an embarrasment. Not biased - cos they were ENGLISH - but the English were IN GENERAL more understanding and "humane" about things. Yes, I know the history and why I'd got in a discussion about the blood spilled on the land.

Look, I'm not trying to shift blame onto anyone for what's going on in SA at the moment. There are certain things in life everyone has to take responsibility for, and even failing that, everyone should try to solve. I have no problem with the English, Europeans, Americans, Scots, Irish, Botswanas, Mozambicans, Zimbabweans or anyone else for that matter. I do sometimes get the impression that certain Europeans find it popular to look down on Afrikaans-speaking Caucasians though. Not blaming, just stating my opinion and perception based on past experience.

And try to take as little offense from this as possible: There's a huge, huge, huge, humongous difference between working here and living here...

I personally had demonstrated one of the methods for testing the line to remote exchanges This was rationalised as "THe kaffa out there cant understand instructions so this is how we test" .... they would get the remote guy to hold the line entering the exchange building and then they would wind a megger. If the guy screamed they knew the line was OK. This was a big laugh and NOBODY in the room mentioned it ... 'cept me , I'm a bolshie Scottish presbytarian humanist !!

I truly don't know how to respond to that, except to say those things and probably much worse have happened and possibly still do. Highlighting only one side's faults doesn't do much good though.

This is geting a wee bit OT, BUT until we accept the mistakes made in our past then we limit our options for better futures.
Scottish minsters on missionary "work" did as much harm as a soldier with a bullet :(
I can accept the reasons WHY they chose that route at the time and also how we learned to do better

Good for you I say. And I fully agree as already stated further up that we need to learn from past mistakes.

Having said that, I probably blew your comment way out of proportion. So, apologies.

Moving on.

[Matra et Alpine]

nae prob, the problemof the typed word :)

An imtrigued at the "other" meanings of rooinek, always thought it was like the "original" usage and was just a way of putting down the English in-comers. Of course these things change over time hence redneck in America. I knew of possible other links with red army coats of the Brits etc, but am intrigued in that you indicate another meaning ? Beyond the obvious globally used put-down for someone stuck in an old-fashined self-serving world, is there a nuance of rooinek I'm missing ? If VERY offensive PM me it ... stil kep in touch with ex-Joburg mates and might be tempted to wind em up :)

ANd I definately concur a few years in a country is totally different as "belonging" to an ethnic group of long standing. Think Scots in the UK :) I do tend to hoep I understood a little bit more because of my opennes and bluntness - some say stupidity. So I DID drive to Soweto at the height of necklacing. I did talk to as many folks as I could find -- when away from home on long trips and long term you tend to talk to everybody and anybody willing to give you time -- anything to stop the homesickness :) :) :) Berated my Afrikaans colleagues for their fear culture and willingness to carry arms AND the Engilsh colonials for their clinging to British values that meant nothgin !!

However, I would contend that you only had to go to one *REAL* brie to get what SA was about :) I miss the place :(

[Kooper]

nae prob, the problemof the typed word :)

An imtrigued at the "other" meanings of rooinek, always thought it was like the "original" usage and was just a way of putting down the English in-comers. Of course these things change over time hence redneck in America. I knew of possible other links with red army coats of the Brits etc, but am intrigued in that you indicate another meaning ? Beyond the obvious globally used put-down for someone stuck in an old-fashined self-serving world, is there a nuance of rooinek I'm missing ? If VERY offensive PM me it ... stil kep in touch with ex-Joburg mates and might be tempted to wind em up :)

ANd I definately concur a few years in a country is totally different as "belonging" to an ethnic group of long standing. Think Scots in the UK :) I do tend to hoep I understood a little bit more because of my opennes and bluntness - some say stupidity. So I DID drive to Soweto at the height of necklacing. I did talk to as many folks as I could find -- when away from home on long trips and long term you tend to talk to everybody and anybody willing to give you time -- anything to stop the homesickness :) :) :) Berated my Afrikaans colleagues for their fear culture and willingness to carry arms AND the Engilsh colonials for their clinging to British values that meant nothgin !!

However, I would contend that you only had to go to one *REAL* brie to get what SA was about :) I miss the place :(

You're definitely correct about the braai, possibly the greatest invention ever (even better than sliced bread) :)

There are so many nicknames in SA, from everyone about everyone really. The majority of them aren't meant offensively, but they unfortunately get interpreted that way a lot of the times. We love our nicknames for some reason.

I'll try to get a list of the more popular ones and PM you that, should hopefully provide a laugh.

[Matra et Alpine]

I NEW I needed to google braai !!!!!!!!!
Just got stuck with brie cheese :)

[willysjeep]

Gee guys, i enjoyed the little "brawl" you had and i was worried at some time that this might end up in a racist showdown and it did'nt. Like you both for that. But if i need to put money on this discussion it will go to KOOPER ;)

[Kooper]

Gee guys, i enjoyed the little "brawl" you had and i was worried at some time that this might end up in a racist showdown and it did'nt. Like you both for that. But if i need to put money on this discussion it will go to KOOPER ;)

lol, nah, there's never really a brawl between us, that's just how me and Matra debate things on rare occasions. There's really no ill intent on either side. :)

[Matra et Alpine]

yeah grow up willys and NEVER get in the middle of a fight between two mates.
You know they'll both turn on you and tell you to fornicate and depart :) :)

There was open and supported info on both sides being explored and used to expand the greater understanding. Accept that is VERY unusual for most interweb forums, but we're different :)

[Pando]

You know they'll both turn on you and tell you to depart whilst fornicataing :) :)
...and I don't think anyone would like to see Matra and Kooper fornicate.

[Rockefella]

...and I don't think anyone would like to see Matra and Kooper fornicate.

Speak for yourself.

[Matra et Alpine]

Pay enough and anything is possible :)

[Rockefella]

Pay enough and anything is possible :)

Apparently british meter maids prove this incorrect.:p

[Kitdy]

Apparently british meter maids prove this incorrect.:p

That was some good cross-thread linkage pwnage.

[Matra et Alpine]

Apparently british meter maids prove this incorrect.:p
Nice link ... BUT you wouldn't even want to try mate.
U-G-L-Y !!!
Think about it, Scottish weather. Abusive Scottish drivers. Hated by the world. No good lookers are ever going to take the job !!!

Litdy, dIffernce it was being offered. That's not bribery :):):):)