Corvette Z06 vs. BMW M5...engine comparo

[Ferrer]

im not a historian nor can i be bothered to search the net for this info, i was simply stating that the design of the engine is old. and yes its proven im not denying this but i would prefer a technologically advanced detuned formula 1 V10.
I doubt there's nothing even slitghly remotely F1-ish about the M5's engine.

[h22a]

Stop being in denial. And no personal attacks.

Unless youve got something valid to say pipe down.

2nd class your on the money.

[-What-]

Noone has to convinve you of that. You obviously like the LS7, some people like the S85. Just because someone thinks differently to you doesn't mean you have to change their mind, and vice versa.
This is known. But I asked someone to give me a convincing argument as to why someone should favor the M5's engine over the LS7. Please answer. If you don't change my or another's, mind you won't be a failure, that wasn't my intent when I asked you to explain yourself. I want to better understand you. The answer to this thread is based on personal preference/opinion. I'm sorry that I asked for someone who sided with the M5's engine reasoning why they would prefer it over an LS7. I must have been out of my f*cking mind.


Hey Mr -What- ...

If you're so DAMN SURE LS7 pawns S85; WHY THE HELL YOU CREATE THIS THREAD?
Have you heard?
I created this thread to seek people's opinion on the comparison between two engines.


Can you start a thread with (Z)06's 7.0 Engine Versus Mclaren F1 GTR's 6.12ltr engine comparison?
Excuse me? Are you royalty? Left click on the mouse broken? Lost your "New Thread" button? Click into the "Comparisons" section and it'll be right....there...http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/9107/booyahpp8.png


...Start your own f*cking threads.

I don't see the point of comparing a limited production engine with a much higher horsepower rating and a significantly higher budget to the stock LS7. But I could get down and dirty all day on the repair cost... If that is the comparison you desire, go ahead and start it yourself. You need me for..."What"?

Are there any 5.0 V8 Johnny Bravo engines? Can we do a comparison with S85?
I'm not hip to the "Johnny Bravo 5.0 V8" inside joke, so I'm not laughing, or hurting, or offended...nor do I "feel played". You completely failed with that one.

[The_Canuck]

View Poll Results: Engine you'd rather in your car.

Everybody shutup about which ones better, ^ thats the poll question, so there is NO wrong answer.

:p

[Quiggs]

im not a historian nor can i be bothered to search the net for this info, i was simply stating that the design of the engine is old. and yes its proven im not denying this but i would prefer a technologically advanced detuned formula 1 V10.
The LS7 is heavily based on the C5R motor. That's 6 years of hardcore racing technology into the motor. How can that not be technologically advanced???

[johnnynumfiv]

Unless youve got something valid to say pipe down.

2nd class your on the money.

I do have something valid to say. You are ignorant.

[h22a]

I do have something valid to say. You are ignorant.
what happened to no personal calls?
Chief your a yank(Ignorance is you middle name)
keep pulling your lizard dick over the LS7, i'll be very content with the V10.

hmm reliable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_RcK359p_c&mode=related&search=

[2ndclasscitizen]

So much for your 100hp per litre or your super exotic bugati engine.........

For the ultimate engine why settle for the LS7 when you can get the LSx........

GM's 9L Small Block that handles 2500 HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Try making a 9L OHV engine!!!!!!
Stop making the rest of Aussies look bad. It's a BMW engine, and the LSX is OHV. Pushrod engines = OHV engines.

[h22a]

I doubt there's nothing even slitghly remotely F1-ish about the M5's engine.
Chief why do you bother even posting
http://www.bmwworld.com/models/m5_e60.htm

[Jack_Bauer]

Chief why do you bother even posting
http://www.bmwworld.com/models/m5_e60.htm
Did you even read that article? It states that BMW have learned from some of the processes used in its motorsports divisions to help develop the M5's engine (ie bogstandard press-release waffle). At no point does it suggest that it is a detuned version of the F1 V10 engine, or that it shares any components whatsoever with it. It bears no relation to the old F1 engine aside from the engine's configuration. :rolleyes:

And if you carry on insulting other forum members I can assure you it will be you who won't be bothering posting anymore. Either debate civilly on the forums or not at all.

[Quiggs]

That article was full of the typical press release garbage... "Race inspired" does not equal "We took it straight off our F1 motor and put it in your street car."

[h22a]

hey cheif i never instigated any insult.

Did you read the article?
The engine shares more than just its number of cylinders with the Formula 1 engine that powers the BMW WilliamsF1 team. Technology forged in the heat of motorsport has enhanced the processes and components used in this new powerhouse engine.
It might not use the same components but the technology has been carried over

[Quiggs]

Well the LS7 has actual parts from the C5R motor. Advantage? LS7.

[PerfAdv]

Inspired by Formula One!

Translating Formula 1 technology directly into a road car maybe BMW M's most impressive feat to date.

BMW M engineers were given the task of focusing "first and foremost on engine power". They were able to tap into such aspects of F1 engine technology as how the oil supply has to be regulated at high cornering forces.


Click for a larger image

The BMW Concept M5 translates Formula 1 technology into a road car and is powered by a V10 engine — a first for BMW. The Concept M5 delivers around 373kW of power and 500Nm of torque (490bhp and 370lb/ft of torque), and is capable of completing the zero to 100km/h sprint in well under five seconds, according to the manufacturer.

Featuring many of the styling and technological advancements offered by new 5-Series models, the new M5's engine is said to be derived from BMW's race-winning Formula 1 efforts - it is commonly accepted that BMW delivers the most powerful F1 engine on the grid. While not capable of the F1 engine's stratospheric 19,000 rpm, the road car's Valvetronic engine will be able to achieve a stunning 9,000 rpm.

Another feature of the new M5 borrowing F1 technology is the new seven-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox change. The Concept M5 also uses a modified version of BMW’s Dynamic Stability Control (DSC), a purpose-designed braking system, and a new development of the company’s Servotronic steering.

Formula 1 technology is also carried over to the gearbox. The Concept M5 is equipped with a seven-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox with racing-type paddle shifters on its steering wheel — another first for BMW.
Quoted from the article.

VTEC was first used by Honda in racing and F1, then it trickled into their production models. For a long time VTEC kicked ass as other manufacturers struggled to master their own versions.

No one would give you an engine that was designed to last 2 race weekends. It's just some of what they've learned.

Even Lexus is going to cash in on the F1-V10 engines Toyota raced. Their new Supercar is said to be V10 powered which is F1-derived...

[Jack_Bauer]

The engine shares more than just its number of cylinders with the Formula 1 engine that powers the BMW WilliamsF1 team. Technology forged in the heat of motorsport has enhanced the processes and components used in this new powerhouse engine.
It might not use the same components but the technology has been carried over
Like I said, it's just typical manufacturer sales spiel. They claim that the engine has links with the F1 engines, yet provide no evidence of this whatsoever. It's exactly the same with the gearbox. They made a big song and dance about how the "revolutionary 7-speed transmission" was derived from their F1 exploits, but again the reality is the only thing it has in common is the number of ratios and flappy paddles. It's just marketing guff, don't get sucked in by it.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Even Lexus is going to cash in on the F1-V10 engines Toyota raced. Their new Supercar is said to be V10 powered which is F1-derived...
Not anymore, they're said to be going down the V8+hybrid route.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

That's a big conclusion to leap to, especially as it's only a new engine, and most manufacturers give themselves room to upgrade in future models/upgrades.
I know it seems like quite a sweeping statement, but how much more can we reliably squeeze out of an engine? And don't forget it's at the expense of torque... the Z06 has almost equal amounts of torque and bhp, whereas the M5's engine has a serious deficit in the torque department, making it much harder work on the road- a lot of gearchange action. Then again, a more involved driver might like that...

I can't really choose between these 2 engines. I mean, I love V8s, but I really like the thinking behind the V10. To me, it seems as though at BMW they sat down and went "We are going to buld the best damn engine we can" and then used all their engineering knoweledge and skill to do that. Whereas to me the LS7 says that GM needed a more powerful engine for the Z06 and someone just went "Just make it bigger, that'll do" The C5 Z06 didn't need a bigger engine, GM worked at the LS1, made it better and came out with the LS6.
Probably one of the more valid statements in this thread, apart from the last part. If Chevy really hadn't bothered to tickle the LS7, then they'd have got the same power rating as a Jeep Wrangler. But they didn't- they got over 500bhp, which isn't bad, taking into consideration that a lot of Yankee beasts don't make over 50bhp/l (yes, I know the bhp/l argument is pointless, but it's true...)

[monaroCountry]

Stop making the rest of Aussies look bad. It's a BMW engine, and the LSX is OHV. Pushrod engines = OHV engines.


Ops my bad OHV and OHC...................

[STREETFIRE]

There sure are a lot of bitches on this forum.I'm not trying to create any havoc.
The only thing you're doing is claiming that you're putting the fire out with water when you're really tipping gasoline on it. Don't call people bitches and say they f*cking suck and arguments won't start.

[jediali]

if features and technology is what you like to brag about down the pub then the M5 V10 is your bag but i have to respect the significant gain in efficiency of these pushrod V8s over the last decade.

Throughout the years Corvette persisted in using push-rod V8s, even though technology fans like me doubted the future of such engines. Overhead-valve V8s may never match the efficiency of dohc V8s, but they are relatively simple, cheap and lightweight. In the C5, GM successfully made its LS1 V8 so compact and lightweight, while raised its revvabiilty and efficiency significantly.

Back in 1984, the C4's 5.7-litre V8 pumped out only 230 horsepower. 13 years later, the same displacement produced 345 horsepower in the C5. Z06 even raised the horsepower count to 405, all achieved without any increase of displacement. For the same period, Porsche 911 Carrera had its power raised from 231hp to 300hp only, even though it switched from air cool to water cool, 2 valves to 4 valves per cylinder along with an additional 200cc. One can see how far GM's push-rod V8s had progressed.

[Ferrer]

Chief why do you bother even posting
http://www.bmwworld.com/models/m5_e60.htm
Don't believe everything that's said in press releases...

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Don't believe everything that's said in press releases...
Very wise words indeed. h22a, do yuo really think that a company would damn their product by telling consumers the pitfalls as well as the positives? Or maybe the competition that cleanly castrates it? I don't think so.

Alliteration alert.

[PerfAdv]

Not anymore, they're said to be going down the V8+hybrid route.
Although the edmunds is article more than a year old, I haven't heard of the V10 being replaced by the V8+hybrid in the LF-A. The Hybrid is Toyota's new eco-friendly-power marketing thing, it'll probably also be offered as the base engine in the LF-A. Also, in the article they mention the next (2008-2009) NSX will sport a V10.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107560

Also...

Lexus set to release V-10 Coupe
Posted on Monday 10 July 2006
You may remember seeing this spy shot of a largish coupe labelled the LF-A concept testing in Japan. We can confirm that this is a luxury two-seat sports coupe that Lexus is planning to launch as a global product, available to European markets as well as the US and Japan.

Set for launch in 2009, the mystery coupe will be powered by an F1 derived, 5.0-litre V-10 developed by parent company Toyota and is rumoured to put out a supercar like 500bhp (373 kW) of power.

Sitting at the top of the Lexus hierarchy, the new super coupe will have the BMW 6 series and Mercedes SL clearly in its sights. If the dominance of Lexus in the luxury sedan market in the US is anything to go by, the German brands should be a little worried. ---from Motorauthority.com


This snippet suggests the Germans should be a little worried, but it shouldn't the affect LS7-powered cars because the LS7 is 80 pounds lighter and has more bottom-end torque. Plus it's cheaper, always a top priority to put a cheap engine in your top car...

[Quiggs]

This snippet suggests the Germans should be a little worried, but it shouldn't the affect LS7-powered cars because the LS7 is 80 pounds lighter and has more bottom-end torque. Plus it's cheaper, always a top priority to put a cheap engine in your top car...
The motor itself isn't cheap. A long block costs $13,000 US. Replacing parts on it, compared to the M5 especially, is relatively cheap.

[Slicks]

Those who choose the M5 engine should really think carefully about that choice. It's already at the edge of its performance envelope, so why not get a lazier, more hefty V8 that can be ridiculously upgraded? :confused:
Maybe this is not what your implying, but the LS7 is smaller, and lighter than the BMW V10.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Maybe this is not what your implying, but the LS7 is smaller, and lighter than the BMW V10.
I KNEW THAT ALREADY!! But thanks anyway :) I was talking about construction materials... it is iron, right? And the M5's is aluminium, right?

[Slicks]

Noone has to convinve you of that. You obviously like the LS7, some people like the S85. Just because someone thinks differently to you doesn't mean you have to change their mind, and vice versa.
Hes just trying to make logic out of picking the inferior engine. We like the LS7 because of its specs, not its badge.

I can't really choose between these 2 engines. I mean, I love V8s, but I really like the thinking behind the V10. To me, it seems as though at BMW they sat down and went "We are going to buld the best damn engine we can" and then used all their engineering knoweledge and skill to do that. Whereas to me the LS7 says that GM needed a more powerful engine for the Z06 and someone just went "Just make it bigger, that'll do" The C5 Z06 didn't need a bigger engine, GM worked at the LS1, made it better and came out with the LS6.
And I see it as BMW:"Ok, so we all know hp/l sells cars to the idiot fanboys, so lets make another high revving, heavy engine and just throw it in whatever, who cares about price?"
From the LS1 to LS6, the power was only increased by roughly 50hp, opposed to the 100 compared with the LS2 to LS7. For the LS6 all GM did was swap out a slightly better cam, and slightly better flowing heads and exhaust, thats it. They could have done the same to the LS2, allowing it to make 500hp, but for 1.) the numbers "427" are heritage, and a higher tuned LS2 would be less reliable than a low state of tune LS7. They weigh the same, and are the same physical size, so I dont see the problem.

[Kooper]

A bit confused here... When people refer to the M5's V10 as heavy, just how much does it weigh exactly? Could we have an official figure?

How much does the LS7 weigh?

[Slicks]

what happened to no personal calls?
Chief your a yank(Ignorance is you middle name)
keep pulling your lizard dick over the LS7, i'll be very content with the V10.

hmm reliable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_RcK359p_c&mode=related&search=
1.) Your an idiot fanboy.
2.) Thats the C5 Z06, with an LS6, not the C6 Z06 with the LS7 were talking about.
3.) Thats what you would call a "nitrous backfire", that engine is not stock, and the blew due to the owner not being careful with his N20.

[Slicks]

A bit confused here... When people refer to the M5's V10 as heavy, just how much does it weigh exactly? Could we have an official figure?

How much does the LS7 weigh?
Youve got to be kidding me... READ THE THREAD!!!! Start with the first page kiddo.

[Quiggs]

The LS7 is so light, putting it in a car actually reduces its weight. This is accomplished by the engineer's liberal use of awesomeness on the cylinder heads and crankshaft designs.

[Slicks]

The motor itself isn't cheap. A long block costs $13,000 US. Replacing parts on it, compared to the M5 especially, is relatively cheap.
No, the whole engine (LS7 your talking about right?) is around $12,000, I would imagine BMWs V10 is around $20,000 USD.

[Quiggs]

No, the whole engine (LS7 your talking about right?) is around $12,000, I would imagine BMWs V10 is around $20,000 USD.
I was going off memory. Sue me. :p

[Slicks]

The LS7 is so light, putting it in a car actually reduces its weight. This is accomplished by the engineer's liberal use of awesomeness on the cylinder heads and crankshaft designs.
Most of the time it does reduce the cars weight :p

[johnnynumfiv]

No, the whole engine (LS7 your talking about right?) is around $12,000, I would imagine BMWs V10 is around $20,000 USD.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL%2D17802397&N=700+115&autoview=sku

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL%2D17802397&N=700+115&autoview=sku
Just what my 206 needs :)

[Slicks]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL%2D17802397&N=700+115&autoview=sku
Different prices everywhere:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/products/265565/LS7-2006-Corvette-Crate-Engine-70L-427-Cubic-Inch.htm
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=LS7

[Kooper]

Youve got to be kidding me... READ THE THREAD!!!! Start with the first page kiddo.


18 pages, hmmm....

Entertain my inquisitiveness if you will, don't quite have the guts to go through each and every single page.

Oh, and it's Mister Kooper to you young man.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

LS7: 458 lbs. or 209 kgs.

M5: 529 lbs. or 240 kgs.

There ya go, Koop :)

[Kooper]

LS7: 458 lbs. or 209 kgs.

M5: 529 lbs. or 240 kgs.

There ya go, Koop :)


Thanks IWantAnAudiRS6, 'preciate it :)



EDIT: Did some investigating, seems the S85 is a bit heavy when compared. The Lambo 5.0 V10 weighs 215kg (un-official figure). The CGT V10 comes in at 214kg.

Given, the Porsche's engine is based on a pukka racing unit. But why the big difference between the Lambo and Beemer units?

I read the BMW engine was made using lots of exotic alloys and cutting-edge technology, so I was expecting leading weight figures.

Oh well.

[Slicks]

18 pages, hmmm....

Entertain my inquisitiveness if you will, don't quite have the guts to go through each and every single page.

Oh, and it's Mister Kooper to you young man.
It was on the first page big guy. ;)

[Slicks]

Thanks IWantAnAudiRS6, 'preciate it :)



EDIT: Did some investigating, seems the S85 is a bit heavy when compared. The Lambo 5.0 V10 weighs 215kg (un-official figure). The CGT V10 comes in at 214kg.

Given, the Porsche's engine is based on a pukka racing unit. But why the big difference between the Lambo and Beemer units?

I read the BMW engine was made using lots of exotic alloys and cutting-edge technology, so I was expecting leading weight figures.

Oh well.
Things you should know:
1.) Displacement in no way represents physical size, or weight of the engine.
2.)Generally OHC engines are going to be bigger and heavier than OHV engines.
I cant find how they weighed the BMW V10, but the LS7 is fully dressed when weighed, and just for a FYI the clutch assembly alone is about 60lbs, and Im assuming the headers are around 30lbs, the LS2s are around 50.

[Kooper]

It was on the first page big guy. ;)


Yeah, I kind of saw that afterwards. What can I say man, I'm lazy :p :D

Things you should know:
1.) Displacement in no way represents physical size, or weight of the engine.
2.)Generally OHC engines are going to be bigger and heavier than OHV engines.
I cant find how they weighed the BMW V10, but the LS7 is fully dressed when weighed, and just for a FYI the clutch assembly alone is about 60lbs, and Im assuming the headers are around 30lbs, the LS2s are around 50.


Thanks for that.

From what I could see, the BMW unit was weighed fully assembled, but "dry". I'm not really sure if some manufacturers weigh the tranny with the engine and others just the engine? (stupid question I know, still, I'm curious)

Found an interesting site that discusses this very subject. Some interesting info.

LS7 and S85 (http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=357)


EDITED YET AGAIN:

Found something else quite interesting:

Rear-wheel HP comparo (http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=259)


I know dyno readings have to be taken with a grain of salt, still interesting.

[kingofthering]

Different prices everywhere:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/products/265565/LS7-2006-Corvette-Crate-Engine-70L-427-Cubic-Inch.htm
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=LS7
This engine deserves a late 60's Camaro Z28 body. (drools at the thought of a LS7 Camaro...)

[Slicks]

This engine deserves a late 60's Camaro Z28 body. (drools at the thought of a LS7 Camaro...)
God has heard your prayer:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398927
http://www.lateral-g.net/members/jhanson/

[Kitdy]

I know this is a dead, old thread, but it has been a mtter of concern for me as an auto enthusiast.

I was brought up to hate Corvette essentially. Many Canadians like to rag on America. I have now tried to become less brand aware and recognize a good car as a good car regardless; a good engine as a good engine regardless. Many other nations like to take potshots at America as they are top dog in world power, and I think some of that spills over to everyone else in dislking the cars they produce; Jeremy Clarckson epitomizes a sterotypical America hater for example.

Now, I have looked into things a little more, and while I know American cars generally do not handle like European ones, they handle in their own unique - and very fun - powerslidey sorta way. I wish there was more acceptance of both American, Japanese, and Eurpoean cars everywhere but people are stuck to their allegiances.

Basically, I have learned to love my former enemy. The LS7 is not a complicated engine, it uses pushrods, it has a high displacement, blah-blah-blah, but when you look at the nuts and bolts as Slicks' (and it pains me to agree with you Slicks :p) argument, the engine performs tremendously well for it's mass. I came across this information when reading about pushrods and how they all worlked.

Pushrods/Engine Comparison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushrods)

(Scroll down to read the engine comparisson - you will be interested)

Now, I do like my technological innovations and advanced technology used in car engines - but only if it is relaible. The LS7 is a good, reliable and ultimately, damned lightweighted engine! There also is something beautiful about the simplicity if it's design - sure maybe it is a little too old technonlogy, but it is reliableand cost effective! What I am saying is I can accept both this and say, the Porsche Carrera GT's engine both as technological marvels - though the CGT's may be more advanced and complex, it is probably less reliable and more expensive - a trade off.

Look at the power to weight examples in hp/L:

F140 (2002 Enzo Ferrari) 1.33
F130 (1995 Ferrari F50) 1.17
LS7 (2007 Chevrolet Corvette) 1.10
AMG 6.3 (2007 CLK63 AMG) 1.08
S85B50 (2007 M5 and M6) 0.94

As far as I can tell, the LS7 is better in pretty much every category of performance, thus it deserves yours, and my votes, even if this thread is old, I want that LS7 to be recognized. Now understand why Slicks was so pissed off - he may be biased pro-American - or maybe not, but this time, the pro-European bias won out next to certainly.

Long story short - try to open your eyes and see past preconceived ideas - it is very hard, but rewarding to see the benefits of both sides of someting, be it European, American, or whatever.

P.S. I take my vote for the S85B50 and revote for the LS7. Can a mod do that please?

P.S.S. I still could be wrong and the S85B50 engine could be better but it really, really doesn't look like that - but there is always a possibility somehow.

[clutch-monkey]

the LS7 is better in pretty much every category of performance, thus it deserves yours, and my votes,

i did vote for the LS7, although it helps chevy didn't stick it in a rubbish car like BMW did

[baddabang]

As far as I can tell, the LS7 is better in pretty much every category of performance, thus it deserves yours, and my votes, even if this thread is old, I want that LS7 to be recognized.

We pretty much established that it is the better engine on November 30th 2006, KTHXBYE.

[Kitdy]

We pretty much established that it is the better engine on November 30th 2006, KTHXBYE.

Go find a picture of an LS7 to drool at! :p

[jcp123]

I would take any Corvette and any Vette engine over anything BMW has ever built. Period.

[h22a]

I would take any Corvette and any Vette engine over anything BMW has ever built. Period.

opposite for me, anything beamer over vette. you cant deny they both make fantastic engines though.

i will say in the past ive been a hater of vette but you cannot deny props to the LS7

[-What-]

These stats still baffle me.


M5's V10 56 votes 58.95%
LS7 V8 39 votes 41.05%


Foolish crowd of people here.

[Matra et Alpine]

or maybe you're just stuck trying to drive the wrong way up a one way street :)

[-What-]

or maybe you're just stuck trying to drive the wrong way up a one way street :)

Or maybe you need to talk to me like a man and not in riddles and smilie faces. What type of BOY avoids forward conversation and instead pursues animations to get his point across....I know....A NOT-A-MAN BOY.


Someone needs to get on my level.

[The_Canuck]

Someone needs to get on my level.

Sorry, we can't reach that low.

[Lotec_Sirius]

Or maybe you need to talk to me like a man and not in riddles and smilie faces. What type of BOY avoids forward conversation and instead pursues animations to get his point across....I know....A NOT-A-MAN BOY.


Someone needs to get on my level.

Wow, the forum's biggest tool trying to go up against the forum's leader in posts :confused:

[MRR]

opposite for me, anything beamer over vette. you cant deny they both make fantastic engines though.

i will say in the past ive been a hater of vette but you cannot deny props to the LS7

M5 engine is fantastic but the LS7 is cheaper, produces much more torque and the same power, and actually consumes noticeably less fuel than the M5's engine. I love BMW but the Corvette engine wins this by a longshot.

[-What-]

M5 engine is fantastic but the LS7 is cheaper, produces much more torque and the same power, and actually consumes noticeably less fuel than the M5's engine. I love BMW but the Corvette engine wins this by a longshot.

The LS7 is lighter, cheaper, produces more torque and equally powerful than BMW's M5...but please, don't mention fuel consumption. So many other factors play a role in fuel consumption.

[Ferrer]

These stats still baffle me.


M5's V10 56 votes 58.95%
LS7 V8 39 votes 41.05%


Foolish crowd of people here.
It's something called preferences and opinion.

[kingofthering]

The LS7 is lighter, cheaper, produces more torque and equally powerful than BMW's M5...but please, don't mention fuel consumption. So many other factors play a role in fuel consumption.

Different strokes for different folks. ;):cool:

(runs away as immature members make this into a masturbation thing)

[Turbo.Jenkens]

No doubt the LS7 is the most logical choice....

http://laceylibertarian.us/wp-images/spock3.jpg

I voted for the S85B50 because a high reving motor is more fun to drive than a torque beast. It makes way sexier music too. :cool:

[henk4]

The LS7 is lighter, cheaper, produces more torque and equally powerful than BMW's M5...but please, don't mention fuel consumption. So many other factors play a role in fuel consumption.

just an example, the Corvette C6R GT1 in the LMS races has exact the same power (600 BHP) as the Aston Martin DBR9 (6 litre V12)....both cars have exactly the same fuel capacity and both cars cover about the same distance with one fill.....

[dydzi]

M5's engines all the way. LS7, as most of american motorsport, is just a posh tackishness

[2ndclasscitizen]

just an example, the Corvette C6R GT1 in the LMS races has exact the same power (600 BHP) as the Aston Martin DBR9 (6 litre V12)....both cars have exactly the same fuel capacity and both cars cover about the same distance with one fill.....

But a Z06 Corvette is about 400kg lighter and far more aerodynamic than an M5, 2 things that would have a major impact on fuel consumption.

I think I've already posted this, but I'll do it again. It's very hard to compare these engines, as one is in a dedicated, fairly light-weight sportscar, while the other is in a dirty big sedan and coupe that just happen to have an big powerful engine wedged under the bonnet.

[clutch-monkey]

I think I've already posted this, but I'll do it again. It's very hard to compare these engines, as one is in a dedicated, fairly light-weight sportscar, while the other is in a dirty big sedan and coupe that just happen to have an big powerful engine wedged under the bonnet.

i agree, withthe Z06 a lighter engine is great - with the M5, it's already so damn fat the extra wieght from the engine is not an issue. swap the engines around, however.. :D

[culver]

M5's engines all the way. LS7, as most of american motorsport, is just a posh tackishness

What does "tackishness" mean?

[VtecMini]

http://clipmarks.com/image_cache/axelsenzon/512/50F7F5A2-0327-411F-A77E-E458049ADAFD.jpg

Just kidding.

[Kitdy]

No doubt the LS7 is the most logical choice....

http://laceylibertarian.us/wp-images/spock3.jpg

I approve this message.

[2ndclasscitizen]

i agree, withthe Z06 a lighter engine is great - with the M5, it's already so damn fat the extra wieght from the engine is not an issue. swap the engines around, however.. :D

That wasn't my point. I meant that the problem with having this engine comparo is that most of the time it comes back to the cars, and some advantages or disadvantages of each engine could be more to the car they are fitted in. A proper comparison would be both engines installed in a car, say an Ultima, with identical gearing and then their standard gearing.

[dydzi]

What does "tackishness" mean?

sorry i meant tackiness, remember i'm still only learning english :)

btw my post was just to provoke what

[dacon]

That wasn't my point. I meant that the problem with having this engine comparo is that most of the time it comes back to the cars, and some advantages or disadvantages of each engine could be more to the car they are fitted in. A proper comparison would be both engines installed in a car, say an Ultima, with identical gearing and then their standard gearing.

Exactly. It's gonna take a lot less effort (gas) to get a Corvette coupe up to the required speed for MPG testing than a heavy luxury 4 door BMW.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Exactly. It's gonna take a lot less effort (gas) to get a Corvette coupe up to the required speed for MPG testing than a heavy luxury 4 door BMW.

And a Corvette is fair more aerodynamic than a brick of a 5 series.

[Kitdy]

That wasn't my point. I meant that the problem with having this engine comparo is that most of the time it comes back to the cars, and some advantages or disadvantages of each engine could be more to the car they are fitted in. A proper comparison would be both engines installed in a car, say an Ultima, with identical gearing and then their standard gearing.

We can evaluate the engine based on a host of other factors though.

[2ndclasscitizen]

We can evaluate the engine based on a host of other factors though.

Such as?

[Kitdy]

Such as?

Power, torque, weight, power to weight, power to torque, uh, that fuel rating shit. BSFC or something, yes, Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, that is independent of the car I believe. Also, thermal efficiency.

There is a lot of shit you can look at.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Power, torque, weight, power to weight, power to torque, uh, that fuel rating shit. BSFC or something, yes, Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, that is independent of the car I believe. Also, thermal efficiency.

There is a lot of shit you can look at.

Which is irrelevant when the only in car comparison can be done between a 1400kg coupe and a 1800kg sedan, one of which has a long-geared (and over-driven) 6spd box and the other has a close-ratio 7spd. e.g while in an M5 or M6 the V10 may be gutless and revvy, chuck it in a Corvette and it might be absolutely brilliant.

[Kitdy]

Which is irrelevant when the only in car comparison can be done between a 1400kg coupe and a 1800kg sedan, one of which has a long-geared (and over-driven) 6spd box and the other has a close-ratio 7spd. e.g while in an M5 or M6 the V10 may be gutless and revvy, chuck it in a Corvette and it might be absolutely brilliant.

My point was that you can quite easily and throughly evaluate an engine independent of that car it is in.

[henk4]

My point was that you can quite easily and throughly evaluate an engine independent of that car it is in.

probably, but not many here can do that without immediately referring to and judging about the cars in which these engines are installed....if the Corvette had been replaced by the new Cadillac SRT, it might give different results...

[Kitdy]

probably, but not many here can do that without immediately referring to and judging about the cars in which these engines are installed....if the Corvette had been replaced by the new Cadillac SRT, it might give different results...

What is the Cadillac SRT?

[henk4]

What is the Cadillac SRT?
I meant this one

Cadillac CTS-V - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/3563/Cadillac-CTS-V.html)

[Ferrer]

What is the Cadillac SRT?
I think the Cadillac SRT is a brilliant car... :D

[2ndclasscitizen]

My point was that you can quite easily and throughly evaluate an engine independent of that car it is in.

Outright numbers never tell the whole story though. Your arse dyno is much more relevant than numbers from a bench test.

[Kitdy]

Outright numbers never tell the whole story though. Your arse dyno is much more relevant than numbers from a bench test.

Well, there is more to an enigne than just numbers, but they are pretty important.

[hightower99]

Your arse dyno is much more relevant than numbers from a bench test.

Except for the fact that your arse dyno is never going to be anywhere near as objective as a well performed bench test.

it is more fun though:D

[2ndclasscitizen]

Seeing as though no one here has the last of Schumacer or Alonso, feeling fast is going to be better than actual numbers. (Hence the existence of cars like the Lotus 7, MX-5, Elise etc)

[Kitdy]

Except for the fact that your arse dyno is never going to be anywhere near as objective as a well performed bench test.

it is more fun though:D

What is a bench test?

[2ndclasscitizen]

What is a bench test?

Step 1. Remove engine from car.
Step 2. Attach engine to engine dyno.
Step 3. Run engine.
Step 4. Wank over results.

[Kitdy]

Step 1. Remove engine from car.
Step 2. Attach engine to engine dyno.
Step 3. Run engine.
Step 4. Wank over results.

The last step is quite clearly the most vital - what would the process be without it?

I always thought that they just called that a dyno as well.

I would imagine you could get boat loads of info form bench tests then.

[Ferrer]

Seeing as though no one here has the last of Schumacer or Alonso, feeling fast is going to be better than actual numbers. (Hence the existence of cars like the Lotus 7, MX-5, Elise etc)
Win.

(5c)

[LotusLocost]

The last step is quite clearly the most vital - what would the process be without it?

I always thought that they just called that a dyno as well.

I would imagine you could get boat loads of info form bench tests then.


Bench dyno test:
YouTube - F1 Honda Engine Test Center (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VFScPznGlo&feature=related)

Wheel dyno test:
YouTube - Seven Lotus Twin Cam Dyno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC64ChDflxk)

[henk4]

Wheel dyno test:
YouTube - Seven Lotus Twin Cam Dyno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC64ChDflxk)
I am sure with that sticker the Lotus outclassed the Honda.....

[Kitdy]

Wheel dyno test:
YouTube - Seven Lotus Twin Cam Dyno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC64ChDflxk)

Who's Lotus Seven?

[LotusLocost]

My old racecar. Sold it last autumn.

[Kitdy]

My old racecar. Sold it last autumn.

You had a Seven? Ballin'.

[LotusLocost]

You had a Seven? Ballin'.

Ballin for sure..
Here is some more pics: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/user-s-rides/25485-pice-art.html

[aaronyoung]

I'll go for M5 :)

"The new 2005-2007 M5 features some of BMW latest innovations including a new head-up display, a new iteration of BMW's EDC (Electronic Damper Control), which constantly adjusts the suspension to environmental and vehicular conditions, and can also be set in three modes, comfort, normal and sport. Furthermore, the new M5 also features the VANOS variable valve timing system, and EMC (engine management system) which sports the most powerful computer processor currently approved for automobiles, the MS S65 processor. This processor also controls and measures many other now 'standard' safety and performance systems such as the DSC (dynamic stability program), which incorporates traction control as well as various other mechanical and electronic systems."