Do you think that...

[group c n b man]

Do you think that VAG produces just too many engines? Let's just run through them all.

There is: I4s: 1.2 turbo petrol, 1.4 NA petrol, 1.4 turbo petrol, 1.4 turbo and supercharged petrol, 1.8 turbo petrol, 2.0 turbo petrol, 1.6 diesel, 2.0 diesel.
I5s: 2.5 turbo petrol. V6s: 2.8 NA petrol, 3.0 supercharged petrol, 3.2 NA petrol, 3.6 NA petrol, 2.7 diesel, 3.0 diesel. V8s: 4.2 NA petrol, 4.2 diesel. V10s: 5.0 twin turbo petrol, 5.0 diesel. 12 cylinders: 6.0 V12 diesel, 6.0 NA W12 petrol, 6.0 twin turbo W12 petrol. W16: 8.0 quad turbo petrol.

I think that while many of these engines are really good, others are duffers and some are difficult to justify. For example why have all those petrol V6s when the I5 would seem more than up to the job? Or the V10 diesel when in actual fact the V8 diesel is more powerful and economical. I think that the cost of all these different powerplants is then passed down onto buyers which pushes up the list prices of the cars. It's also difficult to see how Audi and VW in particular will be able to reduce their C02 to 130g/km by next year when there are so many V6s. Ofcourse Bentley and Bugatti don't have to bother too much about that- all that is required of them is to reduce C02 by 25% from 2007 levels.
Some of these engines will probably be axed in the near future because of lack of demand, but I think they should have been more aware of potentially low demand before building all these engines. Thoughts and feelings?

[henk4]

you forgot the three cylinder units.

[I NEED NAWZZZ]

True. Why have the V8, when the much more efficent, longer lasting, more economical and possibly greener W8 is there instead. I suppose the only reasoning for the V10's and V12's is part-swapping; remember, VAG own Lambo, so they have access to all these engines, and more than enough cash to try them with alternative fuels. Speaking of which, seeing as they love stuffing big engines into fairly ordinary cars, why not detune and stick a W16 in a Pheaton?

[henk4]

True. Why have the V8, when the much more efficent, longer lasting, more economical and possibly greener W8 is there instead. I suppose the only reasoning for the V10's and V12's is part-swapping; remember, VAG own Lambo, so they have access to all these engines, and more than enough cash to try them with alternative fuels. Speaking of which, seeing as they love stuffing big engines into fairly ordinary cars, why not detune and stick a W16 in a Pheaton?

I don't know whether a W8 is existing, can you elaborate?

[I NEED NAWZZZ]

VW tried to put the V8 you were talking about in the Passat back in 2002 or something like that. But it couldn't be fitted or cooled properly without modifying the entire chassis and bodywork, so they took two 2.0 V4 engines and combined them together, in the same way that they created the W12 and W16 engines. In fact, this was the first VAG engine to be built this way. I'm not sure if this engine was discontinued or not.

[henk4]

VW tried to put the V8 you were talking about in the Passat back in 2002 or something like that. But it couldn't be fitted or cooled properly without modifying the entire chassis and bodywork, so they took two 2.0 V4 engines and combined them together, in the same way that they created the W12 and W16 engines. In fact, this was the first VAG engine to be built this way. I'm not sure if this engine was discontinued or not.

Google Afbeeldingen resultaat voor http://www.carlist.com/newcars/2003/image/w8_image_cast.gif (http://www.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.carlist.com/newcars/2003/image/w8_image_cast.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.carlist.com/newcars/2003/ncr_73.html&h=245&w=328&sz=15&tbnid=UsR4JGu93jueZM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpassat%2Bv8%2Bengine&zoom=1&q=passat+v8+engine&usg=__I7qqpwEWfLdPd6CPRoLP__IeMDg=&sa=X&ei=Ifl9TenkAsbrOcil7eoG&ved=0CCIQ9QEwAg)


This one you mean, I think it is no longer available. IIRC it had something to do with emission controls.

EDIT: And btw welcome to the forums.

[I NEED NAWZZZ]

EDIT: And btw welcome to the forums.

Thank you.

[group c n b man]

There is an even larger list of engines that are no longer in production than the ones I'd mentioned ofcourse. The W8 that appeared in the passat wasn't an especially good engine I don't think. It wasn't very efficient (about 20mpg combined) and only made about 275bhp which was pretty poor even in the early 2000s. I don't think it'll be sadly missed. Neither will the 1.2 3 cylinder petrol, and so many others. On the other hand, there are some that would be good to have back like the 40v 4.2 twin turbo V8 and 30V 2.7 twin turbo V6.

[LeonOfTheDead]

There is an even larger list of engines that are no longer in production than the ones I'd mentioned ofcourse. The W8 that appeared in the passat wasn't an especially good engine I don't think. It wasn't very efficient (about 20mpg combined) and only made about 275bhp which was pretty poor even in the early 2000s. I don't think it'll be sadly missed. Neither will the 1.2 3 cylinder petrol, and so many others. On the other hand, there are some that would be good to have back like the 40v 4.2 twin turbo V8 and 30V 2.7 twin turbo V6.

They also have/had a 5 cylinder diesel engine.
Talking about the W8, it was a 4.0 engine with 275 bhp. At that time BMW had a 4.4 V8 and Mercedes-Benz a 4.3, both producing around 280 bhp. So if you ask me, it was right there. Can't bother to look for the mileage of the other two engines.

[Ferrer]

They also have/had a 5 cylinder diesel engine.
Talking about the W8, it was a 4.0 engine with 275 bhp. At that time BMW had a 4.4 V8 and Mercedes-Benz a 4.3, both producing around 280 bhp. So if you ask me, it was right there. Can't bother to look for the mileage of the other two engines.
Audi's conventional 4.2 litre V8 was far more powerful than the W8. Which while interesting saw litte use and little success.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The 2000 Audi A8 4.2 was delivering 300 bhp, 25 bhp more.
31,1 liters /100 km for the W8, 12,9 liters/100 km for the V8.
The Passat was 100 kg lighter though.

[Ferrer]

The 2000 Audi A8 4.2 was delivering 300 bhp, 25 bhp more.
31,1 liters /100 km for the W8, 12,9 liters/100 km for the V8.
The Passat was 100 kg lighter though.
Perhaps a fairer comparison would have been an early V8-engined S4? Altough this was arguably a proper sports saloon, while the W8 Passat was more of a long distance cruiser.

I rather like the W8 Passat. It's a sleeper.

[Kitdy]

They also have/had a 5 cylinder diesel engine.

My friend and I's goal is to make a motorcycle company with a ridiculous engine.

I suggested a supercharged 5 cylinder diesel.

I had forgotten there were 5 cylinder diesels - Benz made some too I think.

[henk4]

My friend and I's goal is to make a motorcycle company with a ridiculous engine.

I suggested a supercharged 5 cylinder diesel.

I had forgotten there were 5 cylinder diesels - Benz made some too I think.

Benz introduced them....300D in the seventies, (and supercharged diesel is indeed ridiculous)

[Ferrer]

And I think VWs vans still use the five cylinder diesel.

[LeonOfTheDead]

And I think VWs vans still use the five cylinder diesel.

That's what I was referring to. The Touareg mk1 used it as well.

[group c n b man]

Some VW vans do still use the 5 cylinder diesel. Like the Crafter for example. Thanks to the way vans are always driven, it's actually easy to tell how many cylinders they have. I've heard the I5 TDI from the outside and it actually sounds rather exciting. It sounds much better than 4 cylinder Mercedes Sprinter or Ford Transit being revved to the limiter in 1st gear. I don't think there is a car application of the I5 TDI, but Volvo and Alfa Romeo have I5 diesels for cars.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Some VW vans do still use the 5 cylinder diesel. Like the Crafter for example. Thanks to the way vans are always driven, it's actually easy to tell how many cylinders they have. I've heard the I5 TDI from the outside and it actually sounds rather exciting. It sounds much better than 4 cylinder Mercedes Sprinter or Ford Transit being revved to the limiter in 1st gear. I don't think there is a car application of the I5 TDI, but Volvo and Alfa Romeo have I5 diesels for cars.

As I wrote, the I5 diesel was adopted on the mk1 Touareg.
Mercedes-Benz (and Ssangyong) used an I5 as well.
Lancia had an I5 petrol as well iirc.

Can't really say an I5 diesel engine could sound exciting, especially in a commercial vehicle.

[Ferrer]

Volvo has 5 cylinder engines, as well as Audi-VW.

The Ford Transit and Ranger also have a 3.2 litre five cylinder available.

And I agree on the excitement thing in any diesel. Regardless of the number of cylinders.

[Kitdy]

VW had a V5.

Woo!

The Honda's RC211 had a V5 too, and it won championships in MotoGP.

[Ferrer]

It was the VR6 minus one cylinder.