Mustang Vs Gt0

[Mattg]

2005 Mustang
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/thumbs/1844-1.jpg

VS

2005 GTO
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/thumbs/1370-1.jpg

[Luciferous]

GTO all the way. The body kit could be better but overall its pretty classy (ie un-Pontiac), plus it gets the Gen IV which you should be able to tune like a bastard

[pimp_squeak]

GTO for sure, the 2005 will have a 400HP 6 liter V-8....plus the awesome hood scoops the 2004 model was missing. I'm still waiting for 2008 for the new camaro though....

[Sweeney921]

how bout this:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=2126

[cuntukimushroom]

Mustang! but its close between them, if i had a Aussie dumbass cousin ill go for the gto

[RS6]

Well, the Mustang because it isn't a re-badged car.

[TheOne]

mustang, just gotta love that retro look.

[taz_rocks_miami]

If I could only buy one, I'd buy the 2005 GTO. 100 more HP than the Mustang, fully independent suspention as opposed to a solid rear axel, 6 speed vs 5 speed etc. But if I had the money, I'd buy both, the 2005 Mustang is one of the best ever. :)

[jcp123]

I picked GTO - I am very disappointed in and pissed off about the '05 Muglystang. Piece of crap.

Besides which, the GTO is more my kind of car anyway. It's softer riding, bigger, and overall more luxurious. Though not a true muscle car, the Goat is a nice luxury car that has speed (by my definitions).

[aNOBLEman]

I would take the '05 GTO because it has 100 more HP than the Mustang.

[Luciferous]

If I could only buy one, I'd buy the 2005 GTO. 100 more HP than the Mustang, fully independent suspention as opposed to a solid rear axel, 6 speed vs 5 speed etc. But if I had the money, I'd buy both, the 2005 Mustang is one of the best ever. :)

Oh Jesus, a live rear axle? And a 5 Speed manual? You gotta be shitting me, I was under the impression that American cars were starting to come outta the Dark Ages....

[Luciferous]

Mustang! but its close between them, if i had a Aussie dumbass cousin ill go for the gto

Wait so even the GTO is clearly the better car you picked the Mustang because its American? Hell the GTO might not be what everyone wants it to be but it doesn't have a typically yank interior(ie total shit), and in Australia its considered pretty low-tech....
I think that maybe looks are the only thing going for the new Mustang, it may be ugly, but at least its consistent.

[tmnt_ppn]

Mustang allways!!

[taz_rocks_miami]

Oh Jesus, a live rear axle? And a 5 Speed manual? You gotta be shitting me, I was under the impression that American cars were starting to come outta the Dark Ages....

The reason Ford used a live rear as opposed to an IRS is that they polled Mustang owners and found that most of them would prefer it.

The GT will use a 5 speed, the Cobra a 6 speed and an IRS.

[Egg Nog]

I'll take the Mustang, thank you very much.


Wait until the Aussies get online, and the GTO will leap way ahead on the poll ;)

[03SALEENGUY]

mustang baby
1 of my rides

[Rockefella]

yeah... ok. Provide proof of it being yours.

[lambo GT]

I would choose the mustang anyday over the gto. It is a more respectable and good looking car. the gto might have 100bhp more, but american cars are just so much better than the aussies!

[lambo GT]

yeh right thats ur mustang. prove it!

[lambo GT]

rockafella, he blaitently doesnt have one does he!

[dydzi]

i'd choose mustang, but its a close one
i didnt know much about gto until top gear with vauxhall/holden monaro. i guess its the same car, am i correct?

[03SALEENGUY]

heres the proof for all u smart ass's now lets see urs and proof..LMAO

[03SALEENGUY]

anything else youd like boys LOL the # is 84. Now please all bow and say sorry :p :p

also have an 02 lightning. do I gotta go through this again or do i have cred now? pic was taken at jones beach on long island in case anyone cares.

[03SALEENGUY]

still wasn't fast enough for me had pully's and air induction installed...

[Mazzlow]

i gotta go with the 05 Mustang, even though i like the look of the say, 03 Mustang, 0 Saleen, better then the new Mustang, it still looks kick ass. And not to mention i jsut prefer Mustangs over annything else

[baddabang]

anything else youd like boys LOL the # is 84. Now please all bow and say sorry :p :p

also have an 02 lightning. do I gotta go through this again or do i have cred now? pic was taken at jones beach on long island in case anyone cares.


yeah do the eggnog proof of ownership test.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2584


More Info^

[Mazzlow]

even though I at least believe the guy, do the test just to know *waits*

[03SALEENGUY]

yeah do the eggnog proof of ownership test.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2584


More Info^
this is getting tiresome if u think of more tests i can pass them too...
it gets tested on the streets alot too. and passes with flying colors,
it passes GTO'S,VETTES,ACURAS.TOYOTAS,FIREBIRDS, CAMAROS AND YES COBRAS HAVE A NICE DAY :)

MOST BLINGIN CAR OWNER
DONT MEAN A THING IF IT AINT GOT THE BLING

[Mazzlow]

it passes GTO'S,VETTES,ACURAS.TOYOTAS,FIREBIRDS, CAMAROS AND YES COBRAS HAVE A NICE DAY :)
and probally anny other Riced out POS too :)

[jcp123]

Oh Jesus, a live rear axle? And a 5 Speed manual? You gotta be shitting me, I was under the impression that American cars were starting to come outta the Dark Ages....

Ford was actually investigating putting the IRS into series production for the '05, but they stuck with the live axle because most Mustang enthusiasts wanted it that way. We are as a whole a drag racing lot and the IRS setup is prone to a lot of wheel hop unless a lot of work done on the IRS. In fact, quite a few of the people that have IRS Cobras swapped the live axle back in (IRS and 8.8 live axle are straight bolt ins for eath other) so they could get the power to the ground better.

As to the 5-speed, a torquey engine (which it still is compared to most engines today) doesn't need more than 5 speeds really. It's a good way to cut costs since a 6 speed really only shines on peakier engines that need the closer ratios. The 6 speed that GM and the Viper uses is purely for mileage, since the first 5 speeds are exactly the same as in pretty much any other 5 speed (1st gear is in fact a little taller!). They just added the 6th gear (which is a .5:1 ratio!) for gas mileage.

[03SALEENGUY]

jcp123 knows his stuff

[PerfAdv]

The Mustang's looks are its greatest triumph. Retro whore or not it's a visual delight. Aggressive and raw looking, second only to the original stang. On the other side is the sleeper GTO. Cool and composed with the heart of a Corvette. Even with IRS it's still not a tossable sportster but an understated turer. Sort of posseses a dual personality, mild-mannered Clark Kent until you unleash it wild side. Com'n you V8 enthusiasts, 1,400cc advantage didn't speak to you. Yes, give be the GTO anytime. :)

[jcp123]

I'd beg to differ about those looks being anything resembling a 'triumph', but to each his own I guess.

[SlickHolden]

I would choose the mustang anyday over the gto. It is a more respectable and good looking car. the gto might have 100bhp more, but american cars are just so much better than the aussies!
Get your hand off it:p Guess you forgot who you came to for a great RWD platform:p
i'd choose mustang, but its a close one
i didnt know much about gto until top gear with vauxhall/holden monaro. i guess its the same car, am i correct?
No they told you it was the Monaro in the test when clarkson drove around, When it was a HSV GTO, Is that the one you meen??

[Luciferous]

The Pontiac GTO, Vauxhall Monaro and Chevrolet (Lumina I think) Coupe are all the Holden Monaro in slightly different incarnations. The Vauxhall VXR Monaro, however is based off an HSV version. Some get bonnet scoops, some don't and some are RHD and some are LHD, but its all basically the same car now, 5.7L V8 260kw and 500nm, RWD 6-speed manual or 4-speed slushbox.

To all those who think the Mustang is better because its American think about this for a second. The Monaro (already 3 years old) is a cut up version of the Holden Commodore platform that was introduced in 1998, which in turn was based off a highly modified Opel Omega platform which was around maybe 1993. All this and the Monaro is still more high tech than the 2005 Mustang. And yet in Australia we are proud of the Monaro, but we accept it is pretty low tech. Why would we buy one over an RX-8 or 350Z? The comfort and power put it ahead, so it makes sense. We aren't gonna go out and buy one soley because its Aussie and no other reason.

So if youre American and say that 'I don't like it because its Australian and not American', Aussie muscle cars have ALWAYS had strong links to American muscle cars, simply because it doesn't make economic sense to spend all the money to go out and make new platforms and engines because at the end of the day Australia has a relatively small population so the car market is't huge. So thats why the Australian muscle cars of old have often (and still do) used American parts, whether it be engines, gearboxes, names (like the Chrysler Charger) and platforms. Our car market is just a lot smaller and concentrated than America's so our cars have had to adapt to survive, hence the reason a lot of people in the US consider the GTO to be luxurious. Over here we don't, its just a basic Commodore interior with colour coded leather.

[SlickHolden]

Well i wouldn't say basic intiria that we have in our Monaro's, We have the full Calais options, Where the U.S version is about exec or acclaim spec with leather which is 2 basic models here, The pontiac GTO really is Monaro CV6 spec.
And the opel platform started 88 VN but some say in VT they couldnt do anything with it so they went away and made a hole new platform it was the easyest thing to do, It's a over groan VS:p
But i have been lucky to sit my big arse in the new VZ Monaro and it's the most comfy since Series 1 Monaro.
Oh i have the pic of the Concept Monaro next to the final clay model,http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/2001/011116holden-monaro/images/monaro-4654.jpg

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

The GTO makes it for me. I prefer it in spades, albeit with a different badge- it's marketed as Vauxhall, Holden AND Pontiac! I'll take the Holden, in the spec that SlickHolden has in his avatar that is bright blue... I can't remember the model name.

[Luciferous]

Its an HSV GTO Coupe, it runs a Gen IV

As they say 'Zoom Zoom'

Oh yeah sorry forgot, the Pontiac GTO and the HSV GTO are the only models to run the Gen IV, whereas all the other versions run the tuned Gen III (I believe)

[SlickHolden]

Yeah 260kw Gen3 in the holden monaro and 297kw Gen4 in the HSV GTO:D

I was at the footy once and after every goal they did that zoom zoom:p
Just happend to be on a day when we kicked 25 and they got 23 it was played a bit:D


Here you go IWantAnAudiRS6 here she is mate:D

[charged]

Mustang! but its close between them, if i had a Aussie dumbass cousin ill go for the gto
We got the last mustang imported here,they sold 2 :D and they fell to bits,good old american build quality :) .I think the next model Monaro(Gto) is going to built in the states.How to make a heap of shit car-Take a great car like the Monaro and let Americans build it :D only joking :p

[03SALEENGUY]

The GTO costs 5K more than the stang for 50hp? U can get more than that for about $100 aftermarket. No? based on 350hp(GTO) 300HP(STANG) those are correct right?

for your viewing pleasure the ultimate stang .note ; the scoop by rearside window. aint much but it's there :)
281 supercharged 400HP 281E 500HP

now if they can get it the tires to hold the road .


convertables?

[SlickHolden]

The GTO costs 5K more than the stang for 50hp? U can get more than that for about $100 aftermarket. No? based on 350hp(GTO) 300HP(STANG) those are correct right?

for your viewing pleasure the ultimate stang .note ; the scoop by rearside window. aint much but it's there :)
281 supercharged 400HP 281E 500HP

now if they can get it the tires to hold the road .


convertables?
It's about 395HP the GTO.

[03SALEENGUY]

It's about 395HP the GTO.
o.k. thanks guess i got confused w/the 04 GTO

[Mattg]

I Guess I Made A Pretty Good Poll :)

[Blue Supra]

if i had a Aussie dumbass cousin ill go for the gto

Thats a bit of a Gross Generalisation isnt it?:mad:

[fpv_gtho]

i dont think he meant it that way bluey :p

anyway...

i think i'd take the GTO to be honest. a fair bit more grunt than the Mustang and ive got more trust in the build quality. although, it'd be the actual Monaro i'd get, i dont like what Pontiac done to the car, but then again i dont like the new bonnet scoops on the Monaro either, so im kinda stuck there :p

[jcp123]

Agreed. Although the GTO isn't really deserving of its name, it's on an altogether higher plane than the Mustang. I mean, look at it: ~360ci vs. 281ci. 400hp SAE vs. 300hp SAE. Pushrod simplicity vs. OHC complicatedness. Comfortable suspension vs. harder suspension. For everything that matters to me, everything points to the GTO.

Then again, I'm also biased. I am rapidly getting to the point where the 05 Stang is my least favorite car currently on the market.

[fpv_gtho]

well you'd get away with saying, as far as the US market is concerned, the GTO is i a niche market. now with the demise of the Firebird/Camaro, the Mustang is all by itself and may as well be in a niche market.

[SlickHolden]

You know something, If most of the Americans don't think the car is out there enough that's fair, If they think it's plain but nice not over the top that's fair also,
But to say it don't deserve the GTO name because that car is a American legend, Think this the Monaro is a Australian legend also, It has a past that goes as far back as the GTO, So think this you don't hear the Aussie's saying Pontiac GTO doesn't deserve to be on our Monaro, Because that's disrespect.:)
If you don't like it don't buy it, And the one's that do buy one are very happy with them:)
Here there are so many body kits for the Monaro, Soon there should be so many at your end, If you won't that little extra go for it, But don't blame the car it's not to blame.

[PerfAdv]

Agreed. Although the GTO isn't really deserving of its name, it's on an altogether higher plane than the Mustang. I mean, look at it: ~360ci vs. 281ci. 400hp SAE vs. 300hp SAE. Pushrod simplicity vs. OHC complicatedness. Comfortable suspension vs. harder suspension. For everything that matters to me, everything points to the GTO.

Then again, I'm also biased. I am rapidly getting to the point where the 05 Stang is my least favorite car currently on the market.
I think I understand your distaste for the first time. The 'new' Mustang has taken every thing you hold sacred in cars and turned it upside down. The 'classic' shape, modernized. The mechanical simplicity, modernized with computers and OHC. The carefree pricing, modernized with the 30-grand-'Stang. It's not like but it's having your car turned into what you despise most. Your understanding of the universe has been changed by FORD. The manufacturer of your 'classic' is pulling you into the future, by force.

Close or over-the-top? :)

You know, I think the new Mustang has clearcoat paint too.

[taz_rocks_miami]

I don't understand why some people say the new GTO isn't deserving of the original GTOs name. The new GTO outperforms the original in every way!! It's also a 2+2 RWD coupe. So it's not built in the USA. BIG DEAL!!!

[jcp123]

No, I dont care where it's built, that whole notion of the GTO being crap just because it's Aussie holds no water for me. I think Aussie cars are more American than what Americans currently build. But as I've said a million times, its attitude is not what the original GTO had in mind, that's all; it's not hardcore muscle car enough, the way the original was. It's better suited to be am Olds 4-4-2.

As to PerfAdv' comments...yes, I think in a way you're right. Thanks for putting it that way, I hadn't though about it before, but that makes sense. It is a car that's modern in every sense of the word, but drew on mine for inspiration. It's like sacrilege to me to turn mine into all that I find wring with cars today. The way you put it is fairly accurate.

[PerfAdv]

No, I dont care where it's built, that whole notion of the GTO being crap just because it's Aussie holds no water for me. I think Aussie cars are more American than what Americans currently build. But as I've said a million times, its attitude is not what the original GTO had in mind, that's all; it's not hardcore muscle car enough, the way the original was. It's better suited to be am Olds 4-4-2.
I agree the 4-4-2 is closer in character to the Monaro. My issue is not where the Monaro is made but the re-badge job. It wouldn't have been a big deal if GM commissioned Holden to build a performance GT for them. Best solution would have been to sell the Monaro as a Monaro. Much like Chrysler sold the TC. It was badged TC by Maserati and also on the car Imported for Chrysler. I like the car but as it stands the Pontiac GTO has a serious personality crisis.

The problem is that the Monaro already has a well established image in Aus. To just steal the car and re-badge it, just doesn't work for me.


As to PerfAdv' comments...yes, I think in a way you're right. Thanks for putting it that way, I hadn't though about it before, but that makes sense. It is a car that's modern in every sense of the word, but drew on mine for inspiration. It's like sacrilege to me to turn mine into all that I find wring with cars today. The way you put it is fairly accurate.
I don't know if your being just a little bit sarcastic...no? It's good to see you saw the message behind my smart comments. :o Thanks :)

[fpv_gtho]

for what its worth, the 2004 GTO's were that little more than a rebadge as Holden made a unique bodyshell to the Monaro for it to accomodate the US spec fuel tank. its now that we've picked up the GTO's bonnet scoops and fuel tank that its essentially just a rebadge

[jcp123]

I agree the 4-4-2 is closer in character to the Monaro. My issue is not where the Monaro is made but the re-badge job. It wouldn't have been a big deal if GM commissioned Holden to build a performance GT for them. Best solution would have been to sell the Monaro as a Monaro. Much like Chrysler sold the TC. It was badged TC by Maserati and also on the car Imported for Chrysler. I like the car but as it stands the Pontiac GTO has a serious personality crisis.

The problem is that the Monaro already has a well established image in Aus. To just steal the car and re-badge it, just doesn't work for me.



I don't know if your being just a little bit sarcastic...no? It's good to see you saw the message behind my smart comments. :o Thanks :)

I agree with the GTO comments there, that actually would make sense. The Holden/GTO/whatever it is is a nice car, and the market I think benefits from having it here. The naming is holding it back, IMHO, so if its identity crisis gets solved, I see some decent sales for it.

And no, I wasn't being sarcastic. I actually think you did a good job assessing my feelings about the '05. I think I'll get custom tags that read "NOT2005" and a license plate rim that says "68 Mustang: Hey, at least it's not an '05!" :D That way I get to keep my car and still poke fun at the '05 :D

[PerfAdv]

I think I'll get custom tags that read "NOT2005" and a license plate rim that says "68 Mustang: Hey, at least it's not an '05!" :D That way I get to keep my car and still poke fun at the '05 :D
The plates are a cool idea. On the road, you know you'll always have the upper hand. If anything the '05's paying tribute to the original. I just read a Car and Driver article on the new Stang and the editors say, even with the solid axle, the car performed very well. They commented that, more than once, they checked to make sure it didn't have IRS. Some of the handling prowess, I'm sure can be credited to the platform, which the Mustang now shares with the Lincoln LS and Jaguar S-Type. Not bad since it's much cheaper than these cars. I find the '05 a little more acceptable as time goes by but still prefer the Monaro...GTO. :)

[jcp123]

I'm sure it handles well, but I don't think most Mustang guys will appreciate that. It's mostly the guys that cross-shop the Mustang against cars like the 350Z who will demand more balanced handling. We're mostly a drag racing lot, that's why Ford even kept the solid axle in the first place. I'm pretty sure the Mustang guys will appreciate the stiffer chassis though.

That said, if I had $35k in my pocket and decided to go get a new car, the GTO is probably at or near the top of my list, while the Muglystang is most certainly at the bottom, right below the Scion xB and the Honda Element :D. I am impressed by the GTO as a car, it definitely exhibits a lot of the basic qualities I like in a car.

[SlickHolden]

What you really should have is the VZ Monaro and stick badges on it, The front end looks better and the rear has a new wing now more like the autocross.http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/images/holden-monaro-1.JPG

[taz_rocks_miami]

No, I dont care where it's built, that whole notion of the GTO being crap just because it's Aussie holds no water for me. I think Aussie cars are more American than what Americans currently build. But as I've said a million times, its attitude is not what the original GTO had in mind, that's all; it's not hardcore muscle car enough, the way the original was. It's better suited to be am Olds 4-4-2.

Please explain the difference in caracters between the GTO, 442, and the Chevelle SS 454 while you're at it. They were basicaly the same muscle car platform with different engines. Becuase if it's badass attitude were talking about here. The Chevelle SS 454 with it's 450HP LS-6 Big Block owned the other two.

[fpv_gtho]

im not 100% familiar with the legacy of the GTO, but surely alot of its got to do with the 289 models running sub 5 second 0-100km/h runs, rivalling the Ferrari GTO's at the time which led to its name....i guess the Monaro really struggles to live up to that :p

[jcp123]

Please explain the difference in caracters between the GTO, 442, and the Chevelle SS 454 while you're at it. They were basicaly the same muscle car platform with different engines. Becuase if it's badass attitude were talking about here. The Chevelle SS 454 with it's 450HP LS-6 Big Block owned the other two.

Each car had its own character since each division of GM basically had wide autonomy. They shared platforms, and transmissions but from there each company developed its own engines, interiors, attitudes, and exteriors (though they had similar looking bodies, that was dictated by the shared unibody platforms).

Each car went in with the character of its company. The Chevelle was definitely more of the budget muscle type, with simpler appointments and such, but never really sacrificed basic practicality that Chvrolet was known for.

The 4-4-2, which started as a police package speedy car in a Cutlass body, evolved into a somewhat more comfort-oriented car than the other. That fit Olds' image as the BMW of it's day, a forward-thinking luxury car manufacturer.

The GTO started life on a very different platform, with nothing but performance in mind. Though the first GTO was pretty plushly appointed, they made no effort to really enhance luxury on it whatsoever (if i recall correctly, it came with manual steering, a leg-crunching clutch, a hard ride, and was a air-conditioning delete car). If I can locate it, they had a test where they basically said they'd rather have th Pontiac GTO over the Ferrari GTO of its day. Later, as you say, it evolved onto the midsize Malibu/Cutlass/Lemans platform. It's the most flamboyant of the 3, and owing to Pontiac's image as an all-out performance manufacturer would be the most harcore performance one of the 3.

In practice, the Chevelle SS454 LS/6 was never that far ahead of similar GTO's and 4-4-2's that had 455's. Its horsepower was fudged even more than cars were back then, and both the 455's had about 20 lb-ft more torque. The LS/6 had more glamor, but isn't probably worth the price it commands (although that's relative, I'd pay the $90 grand for a good Chevelle LS/6 without batting an eye).

[taz_rocks_miami]

Each car had its own character since each division of GM basically had wide autonomy. They shared platforms, and transmissions but from there each company developed its own engines, interiors, attitudes, and exteriors (though they had similar looking bodies, that was dictated by the shared unibody platforms).

Already knew that :)

Each car went in with the character of its company. The Chevelle was definitely more of the budget muscle type, with simpler appointments and such, but never really sacrificed basic practicality that Chvrolet was known for.


The 4-4-2, which started as a police package speedy car in a Cutlass body, evolved into a somewhat more comfort-oriented car than the other. That fit Olds' image as the BMW of it's day, a forward-thinking luxury car manufacturer.

The GTO started life on a very different platform, with nothing but performance in mind. Though the first GTO was pretty plushly appointed, they made no effort to really enhance luxury on it whatsoever (if i recall correctly, it came with manual steering, a leg-crunching clutch, a hard ride, and was a air-conditioning delete car). If I can locate it, they had a test where they basically said they'd rather have th Pontiac GTO over the Ferrari GTO of its day. Later, as you say, it evolved onto the midsize Malibu/Cutlass/Lemans platform. It's the most flamboyant of the 3, and owing to Pontiac's image as an all-out performance manufacturer would be the most harcore performance one of the 3.

In practice, the Chevelle SS454 LS/6 was never that far ahead of similar GTO's and 4-4-2's that had 455's. Its horsepower was fudged even more than cars were back then, and both the 455's had about 20 lb-ft more torque. The LS/6 had more glamor, but isn't probably worth the price it commands (although that's relative, I'd pay the $90 grand for a good Chevelle LS/6 without batting an eye).

True the GTO was more flamboiant, and the Chevelle a bit more spartan. But Pontiac had hardly more of a hardcore performance image than Chevy. Chevy engines regularly outpowered the Pontiac versions. Case in point, the Chevy 454 had 450hp and 500 ft/lbs of torque, the Pontiac 455 had 390 hp but to be honest I don't remember the torque rating.

Anyway, as you've probably read in some of my past posts, my highschool classmates and I grew up building and modifying 60s and 70s muscle cars. The Pontiac lovers among us were even fewer than the Ford, Mopar and specially Chevy lover because of the performance image. At least that's how I remember it :)

As you say though, the GTO was more plushly appointed and a great performer. That's why I feel the new GTO is deserving of the original GTOs legacy. It's very well appointed 2+2 coupe, powerfull V8 muscle car :)

[PerfAdv]

jcp123, what I get from what you just said in this last post and initially when you pointed at the new Monaro/GTO having more the image and content of Olds 4-4-2, in that although it performs it's still has a luxury side. Luxury brand with performance engine, this is how I saw the 4-4-2. Same reason I see the new Monaro/GTO as being closest to the 4-4-2.

I'd even go the other way and compare the Monaro to the Buick Riviera. The big Riv is definitely leaning more to the luxury side. They did however have the goods, 455cid w/ 370 hp and 510 lb/ft. Nothing in comparison with the muscle cars, power to weight wise, but respectable. Same way I don't see the Monaro as a muscle car, although it is more sporty. You can't ignore it's heft and lux.

On the other hand the original GTO was a purer performance machine. Living up to the Pontiac image, as the most performance oriented.

IMO the GTO fame is easiest to market in a revival.

[jcp123]

I stick by the GTO actually being a better candidate for 4-4-2. Olds and Poncho did have not too dissimilar images, both being luxury/performance; however, Olds leaned towards the comfort and Poncho towards performance when push came to shove. Although the GTO was lushly appointed, most of that stuff was just standard issue in the car upon which it was based (the Tempest); it was itself picked for that duty becase it was a reasonably sized car that could still hold what was at the time Poncho's biggest V8 (the 389) and get around some GM edict on motors that banned ones bigger than 330ci on midsizers. In other words, the luxuriousness was there more by happenstance than anything, and I'm sure if it had been a strippo model, that wouldn't have mattered much. As I mentioned before, things such as quick-ratio manual steering, the heavy clutch, etc. were intentionally put on there because it was a performance car, taking it far away from the luxo-performance car it might otherwise have been (power steering and the like was later made standard). The 4-4-2, on the other hand, always focused as much on comfort as it did on the performance. The new "GTO" is the same way - more of an executive express than a full-bore muscle car, the compromises made were more for comfort than performance, though it has ample helpings of both.

The comparo with the original Riv isn't bad, although that was a really big personal luxury coupe, something more along the lines of what you'd have competing with a Lincoln Mk.VIII or a Cad Eldorado, or even a BMW 6-series today.

[03SALEENGUY]

jcp wasn't GTO designed by Delorean when he was with G.M.?

[jcp123]

You know, I'm not sure who was the Pontiac engineering head then. I know that a couple years later John DeLorean pushed the 230ci OHC 6 through for production, so if he had that kinda clout then it's conceivable he was there and was a force in the original Goat. I'll check that out.

[jcp123]

Ok, looked it up...he sure did do the GTO package.

[tsunami racer]

i picked GTO cuz if i wanted a solid axle, i'd go buy a Ford F-150, not the mustang.

[jcp123]

Solid axle works nicely for me :thumbsup:

[KELSA]

I'll have BOTH GTO (monaro) and the Mustang in my garage, they are two completely different cars aimed at different segments of the market.

Personally, I love the GTO (monaro)'s handling, I like its driftyness, it takes corners with heavy steering but that's driving involvment isn't it? Its line is clean and sleek. But one big let down is the engine! It is not sutable for good take off, although the torque is nice and constant.

On the other hand, i am in love with the mustang, the look is retro yet packed with 21st centruy technology, i love the interior design, where the GTO is quite DULL for a sports car, it is exactly the same with the 4 door family Holden Commodore, not too impressed at that. the engine is sweet, and it revs, gives a great take off and high end power.

I take both, but if i can only choose one to take home, i'll flip a coin!

But if its a Shelby Mustang GT500, then its a different story..... haha, or else it wouldn't be in my garage. But i'll always look at a GTO (monaro) and say WOW!

[KELSA]

http://classpic8.chinaren.com/album/pic/562/500/2815032345927500562/110168103660741.jpg

http://classpic7.chinaren.com/album/pic/562/500/2815032345927500562/110168113000559.jpg

http://classpic7.chinaren.com/album/pic/562/500/2815032345927500562/110168122556132.jpg

[ashes2ashes]

The reason Ford used a live rear as opposed to an IRS is that they polled Mustang owners and found that most of them would prefer it.

The GT will use a 5 speed, the Cobra a 6 speed and an IRS.

Thankyou. The 400hp '05 GTO is directly in line with the Cobra. The present GTO (300+ HP), I think is an overall weaker car than the 05 'Stang.

[Luciferous]

Our poor Monaro.....She's been raped....

[Slicks]

Thankyou. The 400hp '05 GTO is directly in line with the Cobra. The present GTO (300+ HP), I think is an overall weaker car than the 05 'Stang.
No, the 350hp, 360-375ft-lbs of torque GTO ('04) is most definetly more powerful than the 300hp, 320ft-lbs Mustang GT. The difference in acceleration is due mostly to the GTO's weight.

[SlickHolden]

http://classpic8.chinaren.com/album/pic/562/500/2815032345927500562/110168103660741.jpg

http://classpic7.chinaren.com/album/pic/562/500/2815032345927500562/110168113000559.jpg

http://classpic7.chinaren.com/album/pic/562/500/2815032345927500562/110168122556132.jpg
Love to know where them pics were taken, If my eyes don't fail me that looks like a HSV Maloo R8 ute and Ford XR ute also towards the back there:cool:

[Cyco]

The city skyline in the background looks like Melbourne, from the Docklands end

[crisis]

The reason Ford used a live rear as opposed to an IRS is that they polled Mustang owners and found that most of them would prefer it.

I think GM had a similar problem with old school GTO fans. Those guys wanted a new clone of the old car. Probably would have voted for carbies given the choice. Live axles are great for 4X4s. Ive got a VY Commodore with basically the same chassis as the GTO and it combines good handling (for a big car) with reasonable comfort (for sports suspension).

[crisis]

.How to make a heap of shit car-Take a great car like the Monaro and let Americans build it :D only joking :p
Yes you are. Since the Yanks got their hands on our Monaro it has sprouted spoilers and bonnet scoops. Who knows what other rice you guys would load it up with if it were left to you. :D

[fpv_gtho]

Love to know where them pics were taken, If my eyes don't fail me that looks like a HSV Maloo R8 ute and Ford XR ute also towards the back there:cool:

can you tell where the steering wheel is on the F250? i can see the Mussy and GTO are LHD but thats it...

[Luciferous]

Well the HSV has a Senator front end with GTS 19" alloys, I can't tell about the other one. It could be an XR, but I'm not too sure. Maybe another Ute...

[KELSA]

The Purple Ute is a Maloo with 4 exhaust, and the silver one is a XR6 turbo Ute, the Pontiac GTO was built by specialist mark Jones from Fat 57, www.fat57.com. and the photo was taken in exhibition center. it was taken after the Ford Vs Holden show few weeks back. the GTO had sick ass rims, the eleanor had 4 time bathust winner Allan Moffat's signature on the dash

[KELSA]

BTW, FPV_gtho . The F250 was a right hand drive

[Mattg]

I have seen that stang before. Maybe on a car show or something.

[KELSA]

The eleanor hasn't been to states yet, well at least not after it was converted, but it might be there next spring in california

[SlickHolden]

Right hand drive ??? F250 ??? Is it common for the areal to be on the drivers side?

Can see the crown in the back now:p