Is Toyota really still that good?

[Dino Scuderia]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

Maybe there's no real way to make them any more reliable

If a Formula One engine can rev to 19,000rpm and last two races...okay all of them don't but most do...then street cars can be made more reliable.

It just takes more money for developement....on the other hand if you were in the car making business you would only want them to last so long so you could sell more.

[woodstock827]

Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows

Perhaps it's because these models (Tundra, Sienna) are built in the US?

I'd agree. Americans workers don't seem to understand quality control very well...

[Dino Scuderia]

That isn't true, Honda Accords and Toyota Camry's have been built in the US for many years and are among the highest in reliability and quality.

[acemotorsport]

the camry is built in australia

[scottie300z]

Originally Posted by acemotorsport

the camry is built in australia

and in the US as well. it can be built in more than one place.

[PerfAdv]

Tundra are built in North America and are considered the most problem prone Toyota. Other US assembled Toyotas seem to do fine. Rarely though will you get Japanese assembled models having problems, as a general rule. I guess Japanese assemblers can goof up once in a while, they just don't make it a habit...

[RacingManiac]

its the process not the worker.....working for a automotive supplier for a year really shows the difference. Japanese companies demends more from their supplier as well as themselves, and as a result less scrap and better parts are made, and thus saving money and improve quality. US companies are definitely still lagging behind....

[Dino Scuderia]

Taking big steps to correct problems will keep them on top...something the big three American companies should have learned decades ago.

Quality comes first for Toyota, as it should
Short-term pain will be long-term gain for company riddled with recalls


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Tapping the brakes on new-model launches may slow Toyota's pursuit of the coveted "world's biggest automaker" title, but some things are more important, especially for a company that has staked its reputation on quality.
Besides, few doubt that Toyota will inevitably vanquish General Motors Corporation as top auto dog, regardless of the measures it takes to remedy recent glitches.
With its mantra of kaizen, translated as continuous improvement, stained in the past year by a rash of recalls, Toyota is reportedly about to compromise its ferocious growth to make sure its new products live up to the company's sturdy reputation.
Toyota has recalled 628,000 vehicles in the U.S. this year and may soon recall another 500,000, the Wall Street Journal reported. This comes on top of more than two million recalls in 2005. In fact, only Ford had more recalls last year per vehicle on the road than Toyota.
Not even the red-hot Prius hybrid has been spared.
But they keep selling ... and selling. Just like most Toyota and Lexus models. And that's because it'll take a more than a rocky year to undo what Toyota has accomplished in the court of public opinion over the past few decades.
Of course, the notion of slowing growth never resonates well in the trading pits of New York, where Toyota's U.S.-listed shares sank 2% to close the week at $106.12 on the report.
Number crunchers fear the impact the potential delays could have on the bottom line in the coming quarters, and maybe they're concerned that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Also, the stock is clearly priced for perfection, with Toyota's market capitalization equaling that of all five of the other top automakers combined.
It's not like domestic manufacturers are immune to delays and production cuts. Earlier this week, Ford Motor Company slashed its fourth-quarter production plans by a surprising 21%. But no bit of bad news coming from the Big Three would be considered shocking these days.
That's not the case with Toyota, which has emerged with a mostly bulletproof image.
And the company is apparently prepared to preserve that image at all cost, even if it has to endure some short-term market pain. So far, the bruises are already fading as the company has performed as usual in closely-watched consumer studies.
Just this month, J.D. Power named the Lexus brand as the most dependable for the 12th consecutive year. Toyota cars and trucks were fifth. Broken down by segment, the two brands together dominated the results with four first-place nods apiece.
"Perceptions about dependability can have a tremendous impact on an owner's satisfaction with their vehicle, which is no small matter for manufacturers," said analyst Neil Oddes. "In terms of retained value, recommendation and repurchase intent, and component replacement, vehicle dependability can have a direct impact on a manufacturer's bottom line."
And nobody plays the perception game better than Toyota.
While any sort of production delays may dent near-term growth prospects and give its beleaguered rivals cause for hope, Toyota loyalists are more likely to see a company devoted to setting the gold standard in reliability. End of Story

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...eid=mktw&dist=

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

its the process not the worker.....working for a automotive supplier for a year really shows the difference. Japanese companies demends more from their supplier as well as themselves, and as a result less scrap and better parts are made, and thus saving money and improve quality. US companies are definitely still lagging behind....

It's true. Japanese people have a different outlook on work. They either give their absolute best everyday of their job or don't work at all. It's not just in the automotive companies. It's built into their culture. Doing their job well is honorable for them. Americans just don't have this type of idea towards work.

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

It's true. Japanese people have a different outlook on work. They either give their absolute best everyday of their job or don't work at all. It's not just in the automotive companies. It's built into their culture. Doing their job well is honorable for them. Americans just don't have this type of idea towards work.

<stereotypes><racism> Really? </stereotypes></racism>

[NSXType-R]

Yeah. That's the way that they think. Think back to samurai. If they had lost a battle, they would commit suicide because it's dishonorable. Think of their work as their "war" and think of it that way. Either they served to their best of their ability or they had failed if they didn't succeed.

[jcp123]

My Dad has worked extensively with Japanese in the high-tech industry and would say pretty much the same thing about the work ethic.

Anyway, I would say no, Toyota isn't still that good based on my experience. We had a '04 Sienna which we purchesed brand new and it had TONS of problems, becoming one of the least reliable cars we have owned. Keep in mind that we traded it after only 25k miles because of this stuff:

- Busted seat belt sensor from factory (stupid things)
- Broken rear seat belt from factory
- Leaky a/c from factory
- Rear folding seat broke
- Alarm broke
- AWD service light would flash once in a while
- Front cupholder broke

Not to mention some of the other things in there I wasn't impressed with such as those awful run-flat tires (lasted only 17k miles and rode like a slab of granite), the quality of the plastics on the dash, the creepy variable-ratio steering, and the overall dash design. Plus, out of the four Toyota dealers we dealt with, NONE were very helpful, all were way too busy, and were very stingy on what they'd give us on trade-in value.

One thing they did do well was their 3.3l V6 (230hp, 242tq); I thought it was to their credit that they used their VVT-i system to enhance low-end torque while simply maintaining top-end HP, rather than trying to crank more HP out of the engine at an RPM range you'd never use anyway. The engine was smooth, reasonably torquey, and did a good job hauling something as heavy as it was around considering it only displaced 3.3l.


My friend's '94 Celica, on the other hand seems to be rock solid reliable and gets fantastic mileage. At 140k miles it feels like it's just getting broken in. Methinks that Toyota's spending too much time these days with all their gee-whiz who-cares technogadgetry and not enough just building cars.

[NSXType-R]

That's true. My cousin has a Sienna and it's a great car overall but the plastic really gets on my nerves. Have you seen any of the minivans that Toyota has in Japan/Asia, such as the High Ace (spelling?), Estima and such like that? They look so much better. I think the Sienna is a North American model, so the quality isn't as good. My dad has an '83 Accord, still runs fine. It was built in Japan.

[IVEgotTHEblues]

The Sienna is a North American model, let's keep that in mind here. If you take a look at the Odyssey (which my auntie owns) you will see that there are a lot of plastics as well. Don't get me started with American brand minivans!

And every car manufacturer has their own problems, not just Toyota, let's keep that in mind as well. We could go on and on about Ford, Chrysler, or whatnot.

[Alastor]

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

If a Formula One engine can rev to 19,000rpm and last two races...okay all of them don't but most do...then street cars can be made more reliable.

It just takes more money for developement....on the other hand if you were in the car making business you would only want them to last so long so you could sell more.

An F1 engine that runs at 20,000 RPM lasts less than 500 miles. It has a dedicated team of engineers and technicians that constantly monitor its performance for any deviation from nominal and responsed accordingly.

So a consumer engine that runs at 5,000 RPM should last four times longer? Ten times longer? What about the fact that the engine is typically maintained by a non-technical individual who at best performs regular maintenance. They certainly will not collect and analyze telemetry data about every ride to work.

It is not uncommon for a well maintained vehicle to last over 100,000 miles. That is 200 times better reliability with significantly less control over the operating condition experience by the engine.

F1 may be the pinnacle of certain automotive technologies, but I do not think reliability across a board range of operating conditions is one of them.