Honda vs Toyota

[nota]

Originally Posted by thatdbeme

Toyota doesnt owe Ford and Holden anything.
Dont hate the player hate the game. Their marketing department hasnt done anything more devious than is usually expected of a car company

Toyo might not owe Ford & Holden .. but I think they cannot claim the same about their rightful tax obligations, or those long-held allegations for avoiding payment of ANY tax on profit in this country, a situation which may have literally gone on for decades. Is it true that Toyota's local arm avoided paying any tax on profit for up to thirty years or more?

Eg: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...?from=storyrhs

[adrenaline]

Originally Posted by thatdbeme

- They advertised it as a "new direction in aussie sixes" not a "traditional aussie 6".

"An Aussie six not inspired by touring cars, but by Formula 1"

- The Camry 6 didnt fail, they have sold heaps, i see them everywhere.

Ever heard of AVALON?

- Toyota do gain engineering knowledge from their F1 investment. Their claim is that their motorsport engineers had input into the 3.5 litre V6 inreasing the airflow to the cylinders. Also the underbody of the aurion has been designed to reduce drag.

Do you hear them saying that? No. What do you hear them saying? the CAR is inspired by Formula one. You obviously haven't seen their advertisements, where they fade away the Aurion sedan to reveal an F1 car.

- The ZR badge has been used by toyota for a while and hasnt been ripped off Ford.

It's a rip off. The same way Holden stole the Ford theme.

Toyota doesnt owe Ford and Holden anything.

They owe them an apology for lying about 'not being invited to Bathurst' in their TV commercials. They not only lied, but attempted to degrade the image of V8 Supercars.

Dont hate the player hate the game.

Lame

Their marketing department hasnt done anything more devious than is usually expected of a car company

No, the Aurion really is a 'game changing' F1 car, that will change big "Aussie sixes" forever. A Japanese Camry is more of an "Aussie six" than the Falcon or Commodore ever will be. AND the Aurion wasn't invited to Bathurst because it is an F1 car, Australia's motorsport series just can't compete with this super Aurion.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by ADRENALINE

It's a rip off. The same way Holden stole the Ford theme.

What did Holden steal from Ford?

[adrenaline]

They changed 'S' to 'SV6' to align with Ford's 'XR6' naming.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by ADRENALINE

They changed 'S' to 'SV6' to align with Ford's 'XR6' naming.

Or to align with the SV8 nameplate, and away from the old S-pack

[adrenaline]

They really had no need to change it, if anything it alienated the SS.

[charged]

Zr had been on the Toyota Celica since the mid 90's, its hardly a new ripoff.
The ZR plus the V6 in the Aurion = ZR6 not really rocket science.

"An Aussie six not inspired by touring cars, but by Formula 1"

Marketing hype, Ford and Holden dont make outlandish PR statements eg the latest Fairmont Ghia and Commodore ad about being European or world beaters.

They owe them an apology for lying about 'not being invited to Bathurst' in their TV commercials. They not only lied, but attempted to degrade the image of V8 Supercars.

Mitsubishi has tried to enter and Toyota would if they could, AVESCO, Holden and Ford WILL never allow it, they have stated that many times in the press.
There take on it is they developed the V8 Supertaxis and its theirs only to participate in.


Like the V8's that race actually resemble the road cars Although many motorsport guru's will tell you they are

Its amazing the different demographics at Bathurst when the V8 Supercars race and when the 24 hr production class is was raced there. I know which one I prefer.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by ADRENALINE

They really had no need to change it, if anything it alienated the SS.

How? They created the SV8 as a basic sports V8 and then made the SV6 to compliment it. It needed to be rebranded to get people away from the old idea of the S-pack as the SV6 was much higher-specced. It wouldn't have affedted the SS at all.

[adrenaline]

Originally Posted by charged

Zr had been on the Toyota Celica since the mid 90's, its hardly a new ripoff.
The ZR plus the V6 in the Aurion = ZR6 not really rocket science.

I know they have had the name in the past, but applying it to a Large car where it's competitor's name differs by one letter it's going to confuse people. You can't say that they didn't have intentions of sounding like Ford and Holden.

Marketing hype, Ford and Holden dont make outlandish PR statements eg the latest Fairmont Ghia and Commodore ad about being European or world beaters.

Worldbeaters? Never heard of that one...

Ford actually have European designed IRS and gearboxes in their cars. Saying it has Euro spirit is nothing like describing your Japanese Camry as an F1 car. And not letting Australia forget it. They won't let it rest.

Mitsubishi has tried to enter and Toyota would if they could, AVESCO, Holden and Ford WILL never allow it, they have stated that many times in the press.
There take on it is they developed the V8 Supertaxis and its theirs only to participate in.


Like the V8's that race actually resemble the road cars Although many motorsport guru's will tell you they are

Its amazing the different demographics at Bathurst when the V8 Supercars race and when the 24 hr production class is was raced there. I know which one I prefer.

That doesn't change what Toyota said. "They weren't invited to Bathurst". It's ironic that in the very recent past Toyota couldn't give a sh*t about V8 Supercars, and now they are advertising about their sedans being too good for them.

And yes, V8s hardly resemble their road car cousins.

[adrenaline]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

How? They created the SV8 as a basic sports V8 and then made the SV6 to compliment it. It needed to be rebranded to get people away from the old idea of the S-pack as the SV6 was much higher-specced. It wouldn't have affedted the SS at all.

The SV8 only came one model series earlier, although I understand what you are saying...

[thatdbeme]

Originally Posted by ADRENALINE

Ever heard of AVALON?

Do you hear them saying that? No. What do you hear them saying? the CAR is inspired by Formula one. You obviously haven't seen their advertisements, where they fade away the Aurion sedan to reveal an F1 car.

I have heard of the avalon, which wasnt very successful, however you said that 'every' six they have released has failed.

If your looking for some discussion on how they link F1 to the development of the aurion then go to the aurion website.
F1 is a marketing program that Toyota use worldwide. That is why they enter F1, so they can use it to hype up their cars, but you can also expect them to gain some engineering knowledge from it for use in road cars. Not a lot in a family car, but some. They are entitled to dumb it down in TV ads if people will buy it.

Holden and ford are at least equally as dumb. I dont pay much attention however what was that commodore ad said recently? something along the lines of 'the most exciting car ever'?? come on its not exactly a veyron, lambo, ferrari (or whatever your lottery car is)

[adrenaline]

Originally Posted by thatdbeme

I have heard of the avalon, which wasnt very successful, however you said that 'every' six they have released has failed.

If your looking for some discussion on how they link F1 to the development of the aurion then go to the aurion website.
F1 is a marketing program that Toyota use worldwide. That is why they enter F1, so they can use it to hype up their cars, but you can also expect them to gain some engineering knowledge from it for use in road cars. Not a lot in a family car, but some. They are entitled to dumb it down in TV ads if people will buy it.

Holden and ford are at least equally as dumb. I dont pay much attention however what was that commodore ad said recently? something along the lines of 'the most exciting car ever'?? come on its not exactly a veyron, lambo, ferrari (or whatever your lottery car is)

The difference is, the Avalon was targeting Commodore and Falcon, whilst Camry was more of a midsize challenger, never aimed at large cars.

Toyota can scream F1 all they want. I would be happy if their ads actually outlined this supposed F1 input, but instead they market the whole car - chassis and all - as F1 technology. Japanese Camry F1 FTW!!

Ford and Holden have their fair share of TV advertising garbage, but they don't go nearly as far as Toyota. Trying to make V8 Supercars (AUSTRALIA's most loved motorsport division) look crappy is not only a dumb move, but something I won't forgive. Holden's claim isn't completely crazy, as they didn't say "THE" most exciting cars, they said "ONE OF". And benchmarking against BMW and Merc is a testament to this.

[STREETFIRE]

I agree. With ADRENALINE. Even if I'm a Holden fan. You could benchmark the Calais V against an Audi A4 and not be kicked into a mental asylum. But screaming F1?

[QBridge]

Originally Posted by Niko_Fx

The new Camry is just as boring as previous generations but with decent power...

and I'll add to that... decent FWD power.
Honda and Toyota both need to grow up and get rid of anything transversly mounted.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by QBridge

and I'll add to that... decent FWD power.
Honda and Toyota both need to grow up and get rid of anything transversly mounted.

Annoyingly, they've already started





But unfortunately, GM dropped this nearly 40 years ago



Oh no! He's Back!

SMP!