WHAT says: Honda is Failing

[clutch-monkey]

what the flying **** happened to the ITR? decent looking, one of the finest, most agile and chuckable FWD chassis' ever with a screaming engine and they killed it...
their fun cars like the CRX are also long gone

[ScionDriver]

I agree they are going bland but I like Honda's idea of designing the Accord coupe and sedan different because they appeal to different people. Overall you make a really strong case with good points. I think that Honda should appeal to a younger crowd with a decent NSX replacement and maybe more in the Del Sol and CRX department.

HOWEVER I thought a lot of your arguements are from a ricer point of view and I think in the big picture Honda gets more buyers who are young, boring people who want a boring car that is reliable, safe and fuel efficient to get them to work and back. I think they sell more cars to those people than to enthusiants.

[teatako]

Originally Posted by ScionDriver

HOWEVER I thought a lot of your arguements are from a ricer point of view and I think in the big picture Honda gets more buyers who are young, boring people who want a boring car that is reliable, safe and fuel efficient to get them to work and back. I think they sell more cars to those people than to enthusiants.

my thoughts exactly. they´re not Lotus. Honda makes awesomely good K-cars aimed at young women, microvans where you can fit a motorcycle in. they make engines that spin reliably to 8000-9000 rpm and fit them in under or around 30,000 dollar extremely capable sports cars. which also happen to achieve very good mileage per gallon. I can´t see where honda is failing. just because the "sport" compact competition has what 50 more hp and about 100% more torque steer?

and another thing:

why would they make a new NSX now ? they made the NSX because they powered one of the greatest grands prix drivers of all time to three F1 world championships. what F1 cachet can they brag about nowadays, their racing livery?

[Kooper]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I'd agree right off the bat that Honda isn't anywhere near as good as they should be. I'm not saying they're bad by any stretch of the imagination, just that they're more like U2's Discotheque album at the moment: great band, poor album.

F1 for example, dominant in the late 80s/ early 90s by supplying engines to McLaren, absolutely nowhere in the new! improved! millennium. What happened there? Honda once had to my mind the same chassis and suspension know-how as Lotus, which I thought would combine extremely well with their engine wizardry to form the complete package in F1, but so far, they're failing miserably. Embarrassing to themselves and disappointing to their fans.

And their roadcars? Where's the NSX? And why oh why are they even thinking of making its replacement anything other than a mid-engined layout?
S2000? Sure, it's still something of a marvel, but that's how old now? And why no hard top version? People are still begging for it even now so it would obviously sell well, but Honda just refuses to deliver the goods.

Now the new Civic, that's something else. Great packaging, mould-breaking looks. But tell me Honda, why's the new Type R (at least in this market) still fitted with the previous-gen engine? And why's the rear suspension not multi-link like the model that preceded it? Is that the best you could come up with here? Sure, I've read a host of comparative reviews from all different types of publications singing its praises, but the thing is it could've been so much better...

Why so late with Diesel engines? Better late than never I guess, but the delayed entry into the diesel drive points to one humdinger of an oversight. That's one gigantic gap they created for themselves in Europe for one, and the Japanese have been trying to invade European roads for how long now. If they were a bit earlier, could we have seen diesel engines coming from them today that possibly could've been as highly regarded as the S2000's petrol unit? Maybe that's still in the pipe-line (I hope).


Reliability though, top marks there. I see them continually topping customer surveys the world over. And as someone else mentioned already, maybe the only way they could've achieved that was by concentrating on boring, simple and reliable econo-boxes.


The fact still stands though, they're not paying enough attention to their enthusiast group of clientèle.

I don't care if the Honda brand is synonymous with city-dwelling robots who want nothing more than 4500rpm and cupholders everywhere, they're not achieving what they can or should. Here's a company with some of the finest engineering talent worldwide, and that's being used to create automotive microwave ovens? Just doesn't make sense.

[Matra et Alpine]

Couple of comments
A very US-centric view of Honda ( likewise Toyota ? ) Perhaps an analysis of the inputs from the US design and manufacturing centres would be worth doing.
Honda UK Media Resource :: Releases :: Honda Breaks Global Sales And Production Records In 2007 compare US growth 3% with RoW
Which other manufacturers grew sales volume in the US ?

Honda don't need to do a "Prius" because they get BETTER consumption figures ( and real ones at that ) with their IC technology

Above all Honda is a BUSINESS - somethgin Ford and GM seem to have forgotten - and as such Honda concentrate on making a successful business. You don't like the cars they make ? Fine but you're in the minority for them. How many companies invested billios to develop new trucks, new SUVs, new ultra sportscars to see the return dwindle in the light of the market movements - taxation, legal limits and fuel costs.

If asked to predict which manfufacturers will be around in 20 years, Honda is pretty much top of my list !

[henk4]

another thread that goes to show what -what- says, can better be ignored.

[muttly]

Aw well every is entitled to their opinion, it's a shame we have to listen to such demented drivel!

[coolieman1220]

thats why i prefer Nissan. in the 80's they weren't popular but then the 90's came and they started making money. the populat altima. the sporty maxima and all the Z cars. silvia's stanza's. the sentra IMO the new one is yikesy but the altima and maxima are great. the VQ35DE great engine. Honda's are boring. yes i have a civic coupe but its used to run around in. get great gas mileage. the sedan is YIKES though. toyota is slipping in quality. my family owns one of each, a toyota, a honda and a nissan. i prefer the nissan. amazing car. honda and toyota will sell due to reliablity and gas mileage. thats all. not styling. it's embrassing to make a sexy looking car and have it underpowered

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by Kooper

Now the new Civic, that's something else. Great packaging, mould-breaking looks. But tell me Honda, why's the new Type R (at least in this market) still fitted with the previous-gen engine? And why's the rear suspension not multi-link like the model that preceded it? Is that the best you could come up with here? Sure, I've read a host of comparative reviews from all different types of publications singing its praises, but the thing is it could've been so much better...

That is an important point in my opinion. Honda used to be at the fore front of engineering. They cars were very adavnced yet reliable and affordable. And yet with this new Civic they seem to bottling out. I hope that doesn't set a template for future Hondas. However from the economic point of view, torsion beams and single cam engines do make sense. It's a bit like Porsche, proof that making money is more important than making cars.

On a side note their styling has gone from forgettable to interesting, at least in the EDM cars.

[Quiggs]

Honda ftl.

[RacingManiac]

ever driven the "Minivan looking" new Civic? its a fantastic car, and easily the best product right now in that class....I also happen to think it looks better than its counterpart out there....

[-What-]

Originally Posted by henk4

another thread that goes to show what -what- says, can better be ignored.

Ya know, sometimes I wonder why it is so difficult when one has nothing useful to say or to ask a question, to just refrain from posting. I mean really, how do you see your purpose on this forum? I see that you are a supporting member, but in all honesty I am failing to see any traces of support. But I sincerely thank you for your usual idiotic and negative contributions.

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

ever driven the "Minivan looking" new Civic? its a fantastic car, and easily the best product right now in that class....I also happen to think it looks better than its counterpart out there....

I have driven the Civic. It is a great car. The Civic is Honda's best car in my opinion, and it will no doubt sell a bunch. The 2-door looks nice, but the sedan...I don't like. .

Honda probably will not die in the near future, but Honda is missing on chances to be a DOMINANT manufacturer like Toyota has grown to be. Honda takes forever to update anything that isn't the Civic or Accord and Honda is just straight-up being lazy with Acura. This new Accord probably is fantastic to drive, but VISUALLY it may be a failure. ACCORD SALES HAVE SLIPPED!!! Does anyone else find this amazing? Sales have slipped from the previous year...THIS IS A REDESIGNED MODEL!!! Sales are supposed to JUMP!

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Couple of comments
A very US-centric view of Honda ( likewise Toyota ? ) Perhaps an analysis of the inputs from the US design and manufacturing centres would be worth doing.
Honda UK Media Resource :: Releases :: Honda Breaks Global Sales And Production Records In 2007 compare US growth 3% with RoW
Which other manufacturers grew sales volume in the US ?

Honda don't need to do a "Prius" because they get BETTER consumption figures ( and real ones at that ) with their IC technology

Above all Honda is a BUSINESS - somethgin Ford and GM seem to have forgotten - and as such Honda concentrate on making a successful business. You don't like the cars they make ? Fine but you're in the minority for them. How many companies invested billios to develop new trucks, new SUVs, new ultra sportscars to see the return dwindle in the light of the market movements - taxation, legal limits and fuel costs.

If asked to predict which manfufacturers will be around in 20 years, Honda is pretty much top of my list !

I got to be honest about this, I don't enjoy your writing style. You post with such arrogance.

So you say it is smart of Honda to NOT invest into developing other types of vehicles? Why?..because of the RISK? Pfftt...typical of a Matra.

Back in the day, GM and other Americans blew off small cars because it was BETTER FOR BUSINESS (back then) to keep investing into their trucks. WHERE ARE THEY NOW. You never know how the market will change and PLAYING THE GAME SCARED ain't gonna get you to the top.

This isn't a game, this is business...right? Business is a game...to me. Honda is playing scared and/or playing dumb. Honda's cars are mechanically excellent...but underpowered. And in my opinion, Honda has by far the WORST DESIGN TEAM of ALL the major car manufacturers. The Accord Sedan looks like a Hyundai. Even Hyundai doesn't design their cars to look like Hyundais anymore.

Honda biggest flaw in my eyes is the lack of a decent RWD platform. Once again...HYUNDAI HAS BEAT HONDA TO THE PUNCH. RWD is looking to be a major part of the future. That fluke super-handling AWD bullshark they applied to the RL is not going to cut it. Honda needs RWD for themselves and for Acura.

I hate Acura. It is so half-assed.


By the way, what is Honda's "IC" technology? Whatever it is, it isn't winning HEADLINES. The Prius is. Electric is the future. Electric sells. IC? Never heard of it.

[kingofthering]

Originally Posted by -What-

Honda biggest flaw in my eyes is the lack of a decent RWD platform. Once again...HYUNDAI HAS BEAT HONDA TO THE PUNCH. RWD is looking to be a major part of the future. That fluke super-handling AWD bullshark they applied to the RL is not going to cut it. Honda needs RWD for themselves and for Acura.

I hate Acura. It is so half-assed.

Hmm... not even GM sees this in their future, with all the CAFE rules and what not.

But, like GM, Honda builds what people want. And the people have spoken.

[-What-]

Originally Posted by kingofthering

Hmm... not even GM sees this in their future, with all the CAFE rules and what not.

But, like GM, Honda builds what people want. And the people have spoken.

Honda does not build what people want. People want a mid-engined NSX...IGNORED

People wanted the CRX...IGNORED

People wanted a more powerful S2000...IGNORED

People wanted a whole bunch of sh*t IGNORED by Honda



GM is bringing the Pontiac G8 and probably a bunch other spin-offs to America. GM also has a real RWD luxury car. GM crying about RWD and CAFE is political shennanigans.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by -What-

GM is bringing the Pontiac G8 and probably a bunch other spin-offs to America. GM also has a real RWD luxury car. GM crying about RWD and CAFE is political shennanigans.

Well apparently they have cancelled a lot of the spin-offs they were planning, like the G8 estate or the Impala. We'll see how that bows.

The problem though isn't rear wheel drive. The problem is creating efficient and environmentally firendly drivetrains for those rear drive platforms. And with big ones like the Zeta it is more difficult than with smaller ones, like the Alpha they are working on.