WHAT says: Honda is Failing

[henk4]

Interesting figures, thanks. There seems to be a clear tendency to move towards more economic cars. Also the Altima seems to have done not so well in the Accord segment.

[Matra et Alpine]

THe leap in the Civic sales woudl suggest that Honda buyers who would have perhaps purchased the Accord are taking the Civic off the lot when they visit. Definately a solid sign of down-sizing by the puirchaser - in size, consumption and cost.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

THe leap in the Civic sales woudl suggest that Honda buyers who would have perhaps purchased the Accord are taking the Civic off the lot when they visit. Definately a solid sign of down-sizing by the puirchaser - in size, consumption and cost.

Prius is up 37,1%, talk about being green...

If you look at the first chart the only categories that post gains are small cars (6,5%) and crossovers (15,1%). It would appear that effectively the US market is starting to downsize.

And yet Camry (0,4%), Malibu (82,4%) and G6 (16,2%) are all up. It looks like the US market is still a long way from down-sizing.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

And yet Camry (0,4%), Malibu (82,4%) and G6 (16,2%) are all up. It looks like the US market is still a long way from down-sizing.

these are "intermediate" cars in rental firm terminology....

[Ingolstadt]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

THe leap in the Civic sales woudl suggest that Honda buyers who would have perhaps purchased the Accord are taking the Civic off the lot when they visit. Definately a solid sign of down-sizing by the puirchaser - in size, consumption and cost.

I would rather give the credit to the excellent civic, which parked next to accord, not only looked better proportioned, it also looked more sporty, agile and best of all, the excellent interior and build, as for space and comfort, it's only marginally smaller than the accord. Many in my country joked that if you want a better car than the 2.0 Accord, don't go 2.4, go 2.0 Civic.

In fact the Civic is doing so well over here that the local toyota decided to delay the launch of the corolla and waited for perhaps a better looking facelift from japan.

[bruxell]

Most of the tests that I’ve seen really point out the lack of results Toyota has managed to get out of all the innovation they’ve pumped into the Prius. It’s a world-leading hybrid in sales only. And aren’t Honda debuting a fuel-cell car this year?
I’ll go so far as to agree with you about the CRX. It was a great little coupe, and if it had stayed around in the US long enough for the B16 to show up in it, then it would be a legend instead of a cult car.
I think comparing the S2000 to the 350 is a flawed model. The 350 is really rather “old-school” in the way it drives. It’s a torquy, big displacement motor in a chassis set up to understeer until you tell it not to. The 2000 is a lot twitchier, and you have to work a lot harder to extract the performance. Honda are offering a track-oriented version of the car this year, and they did a major update a couple years back including a 2.2 motor, so I don’t think they’ve just left it out to die…
As for the Accord, I think all car sales in the segment are down, and the car itself is getting great reviews, with special emphasis on the more driver-oriented focus of the car.
I was kind of sad when they killed off the RSX, but the Si has the same drivetrain, plus an LSD and is slightly cheaper than the Type-S, so I’m for that decision. Acura need a RWD sports sedan.
The NSX was never going to take the fight to the Italians, not in the North American market. What it did was focus attention on Ferrari’s shortcomings, without that car, Ferrari would probably still be turning out a car much more like the TR that the 599. In that sense it was a success.

[S2Kplz!]

I think you are a crybaby and if you can do it better, go make cars and outsell honda. anyways we all know the car program is only there to fund there bike program. honda i beleive makes excellent cars for what they are (except the nsx but that is just my personal opinion).

Originally Posted by -What-

Honda is such an underachiever. They had the hype in the 90's to be a dominant manufacturer. Their decision making and designs hold them back. Lets start with the Civic.

Firstly, why did they kill the CRX?

Civics from 1992-2000 were awesome.

Sporty looking, easily riced, and reliable. Then Honda FAILED in 2001 with the boring, feminine update that no one really wants to modify. They continued the design mistakes over to the anticipated Si...which was offered IN HATCHBACK FORM ONLY. In American? Yuck. Also, what happened to the Del Sol? That was a cool car.

Today we have the popular minivan looking Civics. The coupes can look sporty but the sedans are just...ew. Lucky for Honda they are Honda...or they'd have a hard time selling the new Civic. Design failure. And with the Si...high revving weak-ass 4-bangers aren't as cute as they used to be. Nowadays econo cars are getting real power. Mazda has got an ENGINE in their MazdaSpeed3. TURBO-POWER. The Mini, MazdaSpeed3, GTi,...others are all more desirable to me than the Si.


The S2000...was cool for the first 4 years...

Then they forgot about it? Why hasn't the S2000 been significantly updated since 1999? This was an iconic car! But they let it go. I never liked the s2000 with its sissy 4 banger, high price, and small man seating...but I appreciated the handling. If I wanna drive a bitch, I'd rather a more tunable more affordable Miata. That's my opinion. Will Honda ever replace the S2000? The 350z is doing pretty good...


The Accord...looks like a Hyundai.

Honda had been pretty solid with their Accords up until recently. I don't fully understand...they witnessed a wonderfully designed Camry and they still managed to produce a Hyundai Sonata look alike. This new Accord is the first new-model car I've seen in a while where their sales DROPPED compared to the previous out-dated model. Yes...Accord sales are DOWN from the 07' models sold last January. Maybe it's a fluke or maybe there aren't enough new models available...but I personally don't know anyone that likes the redesign. The Hyundai Genesis will be a more desirable car.


Honda Hybrids...

Well, Honda has never been able to build a vehicle to match the Toyota Prius's extreme gas mileage...WAIT!! THEY HAVE?!?!? Why has Honda killed off the Insight...one of the MOST FUEL EFFICIENT mass-produced automobiles sold in the world...during a gas crisis? Why didn't Honda hype the Insight like Toyota hypes the Prius? Why hasn't Honda built a replacement for the Insight?

The Accord hybrid was a failure. Honda didn't seem to understand why people buy Hybrids. IMAGE and FUEL MILEAGE, not PERFORMANCE. They should have painted it lime green and attached the electric motor to a 4-banger, not the six.

Then they give us the Fit/Jazz...an old model established in another country...and I ask...why isn't the Fit fitted with a hybrid?


Honda Trucks...can not match its Japanese rivals.

Let alone American trucks. Either they failed to research properly or they went the cheap route towards development. I don't know.


Acura...is not a real luxury brand.

Acura is the weakest attempt on the market at a luxury brand aside from Lincoln. What is the badge-engineered bullsh*t? FWD luxury cars? Keep it. TSX? I'd rather an Accord. And their biggest luxury car (Acura RL) is a FAILURE. V6? 290hp? NO PRESENCE? No, aim higher. The price is right but why buy the RL when the TL is just as roomy and thousands of dollars cheaper? And...AND...why did they kill the RSX? To make room for the new Si? I can understand that a car like the RSX can hurt the "luxury image" but Acura isn't making a big push towards upping their luxury image in my opinion. The RSX was excellent. Of course they haven't announced a replacement.

Acura should model Infiniti.


Supercars...the NSX suffered.

Honda let the market rape the NSX for 15 years. Why didn't they replace one of the most influential supercars sooner? At least give the engine a SIGNIFICANT boost. 80k+ for that much power? Why did they let it sit? I see a trend...

So when Honda finally announces it is THINKING about replacing its most desirable car ever, it gives us a FRONT-ENGINE piece of design GARBAGE. The concept that Honda has finally pulled from the car shows for being horrible...was HORRIBLE. U-G-L-Y. Why not make the NSX replacement the way everyone wants it? MID ENGINE.



If Honda keeps dropping the ball with badge-engineered Acuras and taking FOREVER to update their popular cars, Honda may fail like Ford/GM/Chysler. Their quality remains though, but it seems like Honda is more about maximizing profits in the short run. Hyundai is fast becoming a more exciting brand than Honda.



Honda makes bad decisions. HONDA IS OVERRATED.


What do you think?

[S2Kplz!]

you know what i have to keep going here, sorry guys. (1)sure new civics are not as good looking as the older civics but they were never meant to be race cars anyway although with the proper tuning you really can produce some nice numbers(CR-X light and quick!) and there are a multitude of bodykits and fascia that can make a civic look stunning. (2)they haven't updated the S2000 significantly because it does'nt need it you moron its a beautiful car that can handle its own on the road.(3)the new V6 accords are actually quite fast so shut up and drive one first.(4) i hate all hyrbids equally.(5) and trucks.(6) Acura produces some quality cars and suv's remember they are not sold for speed.(7) and i totally beleive that for the price, the nsx is a peice of garbage.(Last But Not Least!) now go put your tampon back in and drive! i am really tired of everyone complaining about minor crap, you don't like new honda cars? write them hate mail or constructive criticism.

[S2Kplz!]

Originally Posted by -What-

Honda does not build what people want. People want a mid-engined NSX...IGNORED

People wanted the CRX...IGNORED

People wanted a more powerful S2000...IGNORED

People wanted a whole bunch of sh*t IGNORED by Honda



GM is bringing the Pontiac G8 and probably a bunch other spin-offs to America. GM also has a real RWD luxury car. GM crying about RWD and CAFE is political shennanigans.

not everyone wants an nsx moron. most american people want the average fuel efficeint A-B sedan or minivan. not everyone is all about speed.

[Rotary.freak]

Originally Posted by S2Kplz!

not everyone wants an nsx moron. most american people want the average fuel efficeint A-B sedan or minivan. not everyone is all about speed.

I'm about the speed and Honda doesn't give a **** about me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd rather drive a faster and more luxurious car and not an econo box. And I agree with -What-. People wanted the CRX and they still do but they're ignored. The NSX is overpriced IMO because you can get a car just as fast and as good looking for a lot less and nobody can tell me they bought an NSX for anything else but speed and looks. The S2K is good but it can't understand why I'd pay to buy a new one if an older one looks the same, performs the same, and is in good condition. Change is good.

Pls stop calling people morons. It's uncalled for. -What- took the time to study and to provide an argument. He's not a moron just because he has different views from you.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Rotary.freak

I'm about the speed and Honda doesn't give a **** about me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd rather drive a faster and more luxurious car and not an econo box. And I agree with -What-. People wanted the CRX and they still do but they're ignored. The NSX is overpriced IMO because you can get a car just as fast and as good looking for a lot less and nobody can tell me they bought an NSX for anything else but speed and looks. The S2K is good but it can't understand why I'd pay to buy a new one if an older one looks the same, performs the same, and is in good condition. Change is good.

Pls stop calling people morons. It's uncalled for. -What- took the time to study and to provide an argument. He's not a moron just because he has different views from you.

the NSX is not overpriced....it is no longer produced.
The CRX successor has just been presented as a concept at the Geneva Motor Show.
The fact that a new 2000 looks the same and performs the same is a tribute to the people who bought an older one and are now not left disappointed that they did not wait for another couple of months for the "new" one.

[Niko_Fx]

Some of you guys need to check and study the NSX's price. I got tired of the car being bashed and decided to study WHY it was so damn expensive.... You'll be surprised.

[Rotary.freak]

Originally Posted by henk4

the NSX is not overpriced....it is no longer produced.
The CRX successor has just been presented as a concept at the Geneva Motor Show.
The fact that a new 2000 looks the same and performs the same is a tribute to the people who bought an older one and are now not left disappointed that they did not wait for another couple of months for the "new" one.

Yes i've heard that they've unveiled a new CRX but that happened recently and this was after the time -What- argued his point. 2ndly, Honda doesn't give tribute to consumers, they're a corporation and their goal is to make money, not to make people feel better about their purchase. Not a single company would stop the development of a car just because some consumers will feel like they got the short end of the stick because they didn't wait any longer. Either way if it was like you say, then Honda obviously cares about s2k owners a lot more than Civic owners, or NSX owners, or any honda model owners where they're updated the car

Honda's not paying any tributes, they're just milking the cow as much as possible before they have to make changes because changes are expensive.

EDIT

Niko, i don't hate the NSX, i just think it's overpriced. Other cars of it's time performed the same without costing me an arm and a leg. Please show me that research though. I am curious.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Rotary.freak

Honda's not paying any tributes, they're just milking the cow as much as possible before they have to make changes because changes are expensive.

and they are profitable....(I know of a few companies that are not)

[Matra et Alpine]

Rotary ... Civic owners in Europe are currently very well served.
Had pointed this out before ... Honda clearly isn't servicing the US market as well as it does the RoW .... perhaps because the US market doesn't let a manufacturer make decent profit ?