Shock: Camry has decent dynamics according to Wheels mag

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

Maybe we should be looking at the VW Passat for COTY - presents a fantastic argument for value, technology, safety and in how it meets the role for which it is designed.

It's just a pity the sedan looks so horrible.

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

If Ford does make side airbags, ESP and the ZF 6-speed standard on the base model, that really does make the base VE Omega look a bit sad.
I mean, a 4-speed auto, no air conditioning and only dual airbags? Even the Berlina suffers for the 4-speed. And if you start ticking option boxes the price suffers and the value for money factor drops. Holden really needs to lift its game at the base level. Looks like all its main competitors will offer more in the base model.
The sports and sports-luxury versions of the VE look fantastic on paper. The base models let the whole range down. I can't see Wheels awarding COTY to a car where the base model has only a 4-speed auto and dual airbags. Such a car fails against both the technology and safety criteria.
Hence my earlier argument that the Aurion looks like a better car on paper.
Some are saying the Aurion won't deserve COTY either. Maybe not. But I'd be a bit ashamed to see a 4-speed auto equipped Commodore awarded it - its not 2002 any more.
Maybe we should be looking at the VW Passat for COTY - presents a fantastic argument for value, technology, safety and in how it meets the role for which it is designed.

I guess you cant underestimate the importance of one bad/good model in the range and the overall effect that makes. You could arguably say the XR6T won it for Ford in '02, and perhaps also the RWD range for the Territory also in '04.

[acemotorsport]

i wonder what the wagon and ute look like probibly a nose job

[fpv_gtho]

Is this for VE? There'll supposedly be a VZ2 to keep both running till their replaced, sometime late 07-early 08. Basically, yes a nose job to make it look like VE.

[acemotorsport]

sorry wrong subject

[SlickHolden]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

Quite possible. That, side airbags and the ZF seem to be what theyve got to play around with. Alot of people think they'll be putting all 3 standard across the range

I still think it will only be a option on models that haven't had it, Just because of the current contract with BTR BTM is it? I was waiting for them to build the 6 speed like they said they would?.

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

If Ford does make side airbags, ESP and the ZF 6-speed standard on the base model, that really does make the base VE Omega look a bit sad.
I mean, a 4-speed auto, no air conditioning and only dual airbags? Even the Berlina suffers for the 4-speed. And if you start ticking option boxes the price suffers and the value for money factor drops. Holden really needs to lift its game at the base level. Looks like all its main competitors will offer more in the base model.
The sports and sports-luxury versions of the VE look fantastic on paper. The base models let the whole range down. I can't see Wheels awarding COTY to a car where the base model has only a 4-speed auto and dual airbags. Such a car fails against both the technology and safety criteria.
Hence my earlier argument that the Aurion looks like a better car on paper.
Some are saying the Aurion won't deserve COTY either. Maybe not. But I'd be a bit ashamed to see a 4-speed auto equipped Commodore awarded it - its not 2002 any more.
Maybe we should be looking at the VW Passat for COTY - presents a fantastic argument for value, technology, safety and in how it meets the role for which it is designed.

I think the Statesman might take it out just a guess?.

Originally Posted by acemotorsport

i wonder what the wagon and ute look like probibly a nose job

I have seen a spy pic of a waggon with wider stance more sporty looking, It seems they have got the wide guards on the Waggon, Only thing is i believe it's the VZ not the Ve waggon.


By the way today a new Camry past me i didn't know they were already on the road?
It looks very similar to a Mazda 6 at first glance, And i do like the Mazda 6.

[charged]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I still think it will only be a option on models that haven't had it, Just because of the current contract with BTR BTM is it? I was waiting for them to build the 6 speed like they said they would?.

I think the Statesman might take it out just a guess?.

I have seen a spy pic of a waggon with wider stance more sporty looking, It seems they have got the wide guards on the Waggon, Only thing is i believe it's the VZ not the Ve waggon.


By the way today a new Camry past me i didn't know they were already on the road?
It looks very similar to a Mazda 6 at first glance, And i do like the Mazda 6.

The new Camry is massive improvement visually and hopefully dynamically over the old Camry, although that wouldnt be that hard as the existing Camry is one ugly car

[motorsportnerd]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I think the Statesman might take it out just a guess?.

Depends whether its regarded as a separate model to the rest of the VE range and different enough. You could be on to something though. On paper its the top end of the VE range that present a strong case and the Statesman should build on that.

[SlickHolden]

Originally Posted by charged

The new Camry is massive improvement visually and hopefully dynamically over the old Camry, although that wouldnt be that hard as the existing Camry is one ugly car

To my surprise on the road it doesn't look to bad at all.

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

Depends whether its regarded as a separate model to the rest of the VE range and different enough. You could be on to something though. On paper its the top end of the VE range that present a strong case and the Statesman should build on that.

I just got this feeling it's a step ahead of the VE range because they have a much larger market for the statesman, I think they said only the front doors and maybe guard are the same as the VE? But it might not ever make it in

[fpv_gtho]

Ford could easily opt to put the 6 speed stricly in the sedan as standard, and keep the 4 speed in the ute and wagon.

[SlickHolden]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

Ford could easily opt to put the 6 speed stricly in the sedan as standard, and keep the 4 speed in the ute and wagon.

Yes good point

[charged]

Originally Posted by syko

Blueys original question remark was regarding long trips. would you rather a rwd or fwd for towing.

If you towing a 6x4 trailer a FWD will do that easy, if your towing a 25 foot van even a RWD car will be doing it tuff. Years ago I towed my brothers 18 foot V8 ski boat with my sisters TM 2.6 Magna and it did it easy, even at the ramp at least with FWD all the weight is over the driving wheels. Her car pulled the boat better at the ramp than my previous EF Falcon at the ramp because if the ramp was wet the only way to retreive the boat with the EF Falcon was putting 3 people on the boot to aid TRACTION(more weight over the driving wheels) of my RWD vehicle.
The pros of RWD for towing IMHO is a bit of a wank, as Ive never had any trouble with a FWD and had more trouble with RWD when retreiving ski boats on slick ramps.

Another case study my other bro has a 18ft fishing boat usally tows it with his AU V8 ute, if the ramp is very slick he uses his Liberty GT to retreive the boat.

Mate at work is the same has sold his VY Commodore for a Kluger because the Commy was useless on a slick ramp when retreiving his ski boat
Whats the point of RWD if you cant get traction.

P:S If your doing any serious towing the only way is a 4WD, so your point of RWD is better for towing has suddenly become redundant

How many times do Australians tow a year ?, not to many I times I think

[monaroCountry]

Mate at work is the same has sold his VY Commodore for a Kluger because the Commy was useless on a slick ramp when retreiving his ski boat

Not everyone can afford three or more different cars for three or more different applications. The commodore / Ford are the best at carting the family, towing, looks, work, and also at some semi performance driving. People with families must compromise on the vehicle they choose.

[motorsportnerd]

Don't forget, most Falcons and Commodores are bought (brand new, this is) by fleets, not by private buyers.
Saw an interesting statistic yesterday. Out of the Camry, Commodore and Falcon, which do you think is bought by more private buyers? The Commodore and Falcon are bought 80% by fleets/20% privately. The Camry has a 55:45 split between fleets and private buyers.
Also, in 2004, about 44,000 private buyers bought large cars (Commodore, Falcon, Magna, Camry V6, etc) while 36,000 bought medium cars (Accord Euro, Mazda6, Camry 4, Liberty, etc).
In 2005, that became 34,000 private buyers buying large cars and 42,000 buying medium cars.
Seems to me that many Australian familys are happy been carted around in Mazda6s, Accord Euros, etc - which can often fulfill the style, space, size, comfort, dynamic and semi-performance roles as well as and sometimes better than the Falcon/Commodore. And if they need to tow - the medium cars can do that as well up to a point.
And private buyers tend to vote with their wallet. I'd suggest that the Falcon/Commodore, while admirable cars, are not necessarily what all Australian families want. And 99% (including many keen drivers like myself) couldn't give a toss whether the car is RWD, FWD or AWD.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

Seems to me that many Australian familys are happy been carted around in Mazda6s, Accord Euros, etc - which can often fulfill the style, performance, size, comfort and semi-performance roles as well as and sometimes better than the Falcon/Commodore.

Around town they're fine, but my family could never have taken a 6/Accord sized car on holidays. 2 parents + 3 teenagers + luggage for them for 2 weeks = not really something you can do in a 6.

Plus, my Dad had a look at the 6 when it came to getting a new car end of '04, said it was too small behind the wheel, he was brushing his head on the roof.