2008 Orion Falcon - First Pictures

[adrenaline]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Makes me wonder what the point is? We wanted a new car not an almost new car But all considering the diffrence from AU-BA im assuming this will be a similar upgrade.

To my knowledge, Ford don't generally do 'all new' Falcons - They just evolve the platform.

New front suspension is a good thing the bit im wondering about if the future development of the engines? like many years ago there was alot of talk of makeing an all alloy version of the 6 and a possiblity of a n/a version with 220 odd kw (perfect for the non turbo xr6). And what still remains my biggest queastion the v8 will we see vvt-i? alloy block?driect injection? is there any news on that front or is it not touched yet?

The only thing I've heard about the engines is that the XR8 will have 290, GT will have 310 and the 'Phoon will have 300.

[fpv_gtho]

Ford nor Holden have never done all new cars until VE, where Holden simply had no choice. The plan in 1998 was for Orion to be all new, but the AU bombed so much the engine and rear suspension had to be brought in for BA. Ford totally reworked the back end for BA, and with the new front end from Territory, Orion "should" have been all new.

VCT is only possible on the 3V engine, there isnt room on the 4V engine and Ford US seems to not be interested in developing a version WITH the room. Possibility though it'll appear on the 2009 BOSS/Hurricane engine.

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

Ford nor Holden have never done all new cars until VE, where Holden simply had no choice. The plan in 1998 was for Orion to be all new, but the AU bombed so much the engine and rear suspension had to be brought in for BA. Ford totally reworked the back end for BA, and with the new front end from Territory, Orion "should" have been all new.

VCT is only possible on the 3V engine, there isnt room on the 4V engine and Ford US seems to not be interested in developing a version WITH the room. Possibility though it'll appear on the 2009 BOSS/Hurricane engine.

Well there is room for the dual plug head (svo catalouge) wether it will be good for more thne a few hp reamins debatleable and itll double the cost of replacing the plug wires. Alloy version would be great finally shift some weight from their front ends and imm shure direct injection is possible (wether the yanks want it is in doubt though)

And 20 kw between the xr8 and gt? screw that id get an xr8 and do some milds mods rather then fork out for a gt. But of course hsv is suffering from the same problem with the only main diffrnece being some kws some diffrenty (often ugly) bodywork and a 10k suspesnion package which I think its a intricate waste of money.

[fpv_gtho]

Well the weight of the engine for Orion will be less of an issue anyway, as it'll be sitting lower and further back. Its a little known fact that Ford until 2001 were under the presumption the 302 was going into the BA....Hence the bodgy installation of the engine and the V8's delayed release. Theres alloy blocks around though, both aftermarket and OE, but they'd be noticeably more expensive than the cast iron one and unlikely to be used as the price of the engine, being hand built, is already too high.

[charged]

Alloy block would be the go though and a nice bore increase ( no more stroke please the pistons are travelling fast enough already ) for another .5 litre then the LSX would have a genuine V8 competitor.

[fpv_gtho]

Im pretty sure the 2009 F150 engine will have a more favourable bore/stroke ratio, not the current 3 inch bore/4 inch stroke setup the 5.4 has. Those arent the exact measurements, but it shows how underbore it is. A 302 in comparison is 4 inch bore/3 inch stroke. The top line engines being talked about are around the 6-6.2L range, so theyve found a bit more than 0.5L

[charged]

Yep 3 inch stroke will make that V8 a sweet revving engine and the 4 valve heads will actually work like their meant too

[fpv_gtho]

Then youve basically got a 4.6 though, which is actually square bore/stroke. Then you lose low end torque, unless you use the 3V heads which can fit VCT.

EDIT: Heres some numbers to free up the conjecture. The 4.6L is 3.55x3.55in. The 5.4L is 3.55x4.16in. A 302 (4.9L) is 4x3in. A 351 (5.8L) is 4x3.5in.

[Falcon500]

Tis a shame the 20 odd kgs saved would be a great help in vehicle dynamics in gernal (even if better balanced its still a big assed heavy engine) I say they should find a way to make it affordable too bad unlike holden they dont have crate engine deliverd.

And i guessed from the start they where trying to shoehorn the ohc motor in it all considering the 302 stopped being made in 02

Add a terra charger to that 4.6 like the hilliers did that au coupe they made with one only had a lazy 400 kw lol

[fpv_gtho]

20kg's? I'd expect an alloy block to be something like 100kg lighter. Isnt it something like cast iron's about 3x the strength and 3x the weight?

[2ndclasscitizen]

I doubt it'd be 100kg, probably more around 50kg. Mitsubishi dropped 20kg off the 4G63 by going to an aluminium alloy block.

[Falcon500]

Those figures mitsu gave is the alloy block plus lightening up several components attached to the engine (IE the titanium turbo and a revision of piping i believe) I'm only quoting what my angering teacher thinks they'll gain all said and told (this is many years ago and i could find my notes if i looked)

[fpv_gtho]

20kg is fairly insignificant though. Considering how much of a fuss the LSx fanboys make about how an LS1 is lighter than an MX5 1.8....

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

20kg is fairly insignificant though. Considering how much of a fuss the LSx fanboys make about how an LS1 is lighter than an MX5 1.8....

A gain (or loss in this case) is at least a step in the right direction. There is also verying grade of that engine (some are extremly light but really really expensive as opposed to reasonble)

Well ls1 uses a plastic manifold quite an ingenious motor but for a 15k (our cost retials higher) base replacement cost id shure hope it was.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

20kg is fairly insignificant though. Considering how much of a fuss the LSx fanboys make about how an LS1 is lighter than an MX5 1.8....

Yeah but with the engine far forward like in an Evo, it's gonna make a big difference having less weight hanging out front.

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Well ls1 uses a plastic manifold quite an ingenious motor but for a 15k (our cost retials higher) base replacement cost id shure hope it was.

$15k for a new LS1? Surely you jest.