TRD Aurion Pics

[motorsportnerd]

Originally Posted by crisis

Note to Toyota. Torque steer is not = to feedback (not the good variety anyway)

While any level of torque is a disappointment and almost inevitable in such a powerful FWD car, it must be remembered that torque steer is not the only aspect of a car's dynamic capabilities.
Only the worst engineered FWD cars will exhibit dangerous levels of torque steer where the steering will be wrenched out of one's hand and put the car in the other lane. The Saab 9-3 Viggen and certain Volvo's have been accused of this level of torque steer in the past. And I remember the early 80s Mitsubishi Cordia Turbos were guilty as well.
However, in most performance FWD cars, torque steer will only manifest itself as a gentle tugging of the steering under very hard acceleration from a standing start, or exiting from a tight bend or in wet conditions.
This "tugging" is not to be confused with genuine feedback to the steering that many of the better FWD cars will have. Steering systems set up to provide the driver with information on what the front wheels are up to will result in a lively feeling steering set up (the Mondeo I used to own was one such example). However, this is NOT torque steer - it is steering feel and feedback. An important distinction from the tugging or wrenching on the steering felt under heavy acceleration. Many drivers without extensive experience of driving FWD cars may not note the distinction and difference between feedback and torque steer. Also, its important to remember that torque steer is not the same as understeer.
Most RWD cars I've driven have had somewhat less information transmitted back to the steering on what the front wheels are doing. The steering on the Fairmont BA I currently own for example has very minimal feedback from the front wheels. However, it offers instead a smooth, well weighted system that is free from any tugging, shimmying or shake that a bad FWD car may exhibit. This corruption free set up may be preferred over a more lively set up by many drivers.
However, a badly set RWD car can suffer the opposite problem of a badly set up FWD car. Wheelspin and loss of traction from the rear wheels under hard acceleration - which in extreme circumstances can result in the loss of control of the rear of the car (so backwards into a tree or the other lane rather than front first as in the torque steering FWD car). Some will view this wheelspin and loss of traction from a RWD car as "fun". Personally, I dislike it.
Of course, engineers have many, many years experience developing the rear suspensions of powerful RWD cars to ensure that most don't have any problems at all putting their power down without unwanted wheelspin.

Many drivers will hate torque steer of any level. Many will not care about some torque steer (I'm in that boat) providing the rest of the dynamic package is up to the job. However, extreme levels of torque steer are a no-no from a safety perspective.

Now, in the case of the TRD Aurion, while all the early reviews have highlighted that torque steer is an issue - they have also highlighted that it is an issue only in certain press-on circumstances (100% throttle on wet roads, or out of tight uphill corners or certain overtaking circumstances). They have certainly not said that the torque steer is in the "dangerous" catagory.
That articles have also noted that the rest of the TRD Aurion's dynamic capabilities are surprisingly high. The TRD by all accounts have sharp turn in, minimal body roll, high grip levels, will only understeer when the very high limits are reached, and has a throttle controllable rear end that allows a degree of adjustability to the cornering attitude including the capability to oversteer. The ride is also apparently quite comfortable considering how stiff the suspension is and that it is fitted with 35 series tyres on its 19-inch wheels.
The steering has also apparantly been set up for quick turn-in and gives quite a bit of feedback. However, this set up does make it a bit sensitive on straight roads. This is not the same as torque steer however.
The following article goes into quite a bit of depth on the TRD's dynamic capabilities. It doesn't contradict the earlier link I posted above. However it is notable that this writer doesn't view torque steer as the only issue of dynamic importance: TRD Aurion 3500S and 3500SL August 2007 Car Review - Carsales Editorial.

Debate will no doubt rage on about whether the fact that the TRD does have some torque steer means that it is automatically a dynamic dud or whether the car's overall dynamic capabilities should be taken into account.
No doubt there will be a sizeable and vocal camp that will say the TRD cannot be regarded as having decent dynamics while it has any degree of torque steer. I'll be sitting in the other camp which says that its a shame that there is some torque steer there, but look at the whole dynamic picture, not just one part of it.

As far as I'm concerned the TRD's biggest problem by far is its price. It is way too expensive. It should be about $45K-$50K. At that price it would find its market. However, its going to struggle at high $50K/low $60K range. Pity, as from the reports, it seems like quite a nice overall package.

[monaroCountry]

Im waiting for the gloss to wear off, when toyota can no longer fund magazines and the internet.............

Im waiting for their new pop star to line up on a race track with the big boys.

This tugging or any tugging is unacceptable in a car with sport or excitement in mind.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

As far as I'm concerned the TRD's biggest problem by far is its price. It is way too expensive. It should be about $45K-$50K. At that price it would find its market. However, its going to struggle at high $50K/low $60K range. Pity, as from the reports, it seems like quite a nice overall package.

As I see it this car might be good isolated, but on a country which has rear wheel drive turbocharged six cylinder and V8 Falcons and rear wheel drive V8 Commodores it doesn't make much sense at all. Maybe I'd fare better in the US?

[motorsportnerd]

I think it would fare much better in the US. As I've said previously, its natural rivals are the Chevrolet Impala SS and Pontiac Grand Prix GXP.

[motorsportnerd]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

Im waiting for the gloss to wear off, when toyota can no longer fund magazines and the internet.............

Im waiting for their new pop star to line up on a race track with the big boys.

This tugging or any tugging is unacceptable in a car with sport or excitement in mind.

Is loss of traction to the rear wheels of a RWD car acceptable in any car with sport or excitement in mind? If not, I can think of a few well regarded Aussie muscle car classics that I wish to take aim at. If it is acceptable, then I would say that some torque steer is acceptable in a car with sport of excitement in mind.
Or is the Renaultsport Clio 172 or Honda Integra Type R not worthy of the sport or excitement tag either?
Its up to the buyers at the end of the day to decide if they will accept torque steer or wheel spin at the rear wheels or not.

[charged]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

Im waiting for the gloss to wear off, when toyota can no longer fund magazines and the internet.............

Im waiting for their new pop star to line up on a race track with the big boys.

This tugging or any tugging is unacceptable in a car with sport or excitement in mind.

Toyota arent even aiming the TRD Aurion at the Commodore and Falcon performance variants. They are aiming it at the Liberty GT etc. The HSV and FPV variants would wax a Aurion

TRD play with the big boys already, shows you know F#@kall.

We have guys that race 380hp FWD Magnas that have torque steer that would rip your arms off and once you know whats going to happen you anticipate and correct it, no different to a RWD when the rear end breaks loose under hard acceleration. Obviously you havent driven much

[KFA-R]

Originally Posted by don_85

Specs
3.5L V6 Supercharged
Power 241Kw
Torque 400Nm
6 Speed Auto
FWD

Auto??? Why toyota why???

any chance for a manual or are we to be left in the age of the "stearer" again? cos whenever there is a auto tranmission in this car.... your really not driving it and it will never get my vote!

[fpv_gtho]

They probably dont have one strong enough. Manufacturers seem to always make their auto transmissions stronger than the manuals, and with bugger all demand for a normal Aurion manual theres not really anything that could carry over to the TRD.

[charged]

I think your right there FPV with all the weight on the front and plenty of torque low down, the box or clutch would take a pounding. Toyota have fairly tough 6 speeds that are in the Supra etc but not much in FWD transaxle configuration

[fpv_gtho]

Thats the killer, nothing or not much for FWD.

[motorsportnerd]

So, the Supra box couldn't be adapted?

[fpv_gtho]

Dont think so, with most FWD boxes being a transaxle, so also enclosing the final drive.

[charged]

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

So, the Supra box couldn't be adapted?

Nah the R160 6 speed box is bigger than the W series box. The Aurion runs a transaxle like FPV said.What annoys me about toyota is they have plenty of sporty RWD/AWD platforms from the Chaser, Mark X and Crown with interesting drivetains.

Toyota Mark X Special Version

[motorsportnerd]

Perhaps the set up of TRD in Australia could lead to the importation of more specialist niche market cars designed to give Toyota a broader market appeal? Cars like the Mark X with a 3-litre V6 and RWD would appeal to those who dislike the idea of the FWD in the Aurion. Not quite as big, and a little less powerful, but the key marketing point would be the RWD.
The Crown could be a rival to the Statesman - just like the old days. However, I understand that today's Crown is actually quite a nice car.
The main problem to such an idea would be the compliance costs with ADR rules for such a small run of cars.
Also, I notice that the Mark X has AWD as an option. Wonder if that might be better adapted to the Aurion rather than the Kluger's AWD system?
Finally, I wonder if there is any opportunites for Toyota Australia to build the Aurion's 3.5 litre V6 supercharged engine for US and Japanese market cars? I'd imagine the Aurion's engine would be a cracker in the Mark X.

[fpv_gtho]

It shares platforms with the Lexus GS, meaning its got the engine longitudinally mounted. The centre diff arrangement wouldnt work with an east-west engine, which is where the Kluger becomes conveniant. To get it to work properly they'd have to spin the engine 90 degrees.