German cars VS American cars

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Batmobile_Turbo

it's still insulting to say "cadillacs aren't considered to be luxury cars in Europe" because they are luxury cars anywhere, that's all they make.

Sinclair for a while only made Spectrum computers - it didn't make them good. They were rubbish.

Expectations of luxury cars DO mean the Cadillac has failed every time they try to market themselves in Europe.

It may be old prejudice for some of the tanks built in the 60-70-80s which wouldn't fit in European towns !

OR, it may be we have a higher expectation of handling in luxury cars. Having driven in lots of different cars in the States ( and Canada ) I have to say they were WAY below what I considered safe and acceptable handling. Soft and bouncy and floaty and "comfortabel" yes, but FEELING comfortable driving it - definately NO. ( My worst experience was in the 80s driving a Z28. I couldn't belive how vague the steering got above 60mph and the rep was unimpressed when I took it back and told him so. I try to get Taurus coz it's OK, but often end up with 'upgrades for valued customer' and in a pimp-mobile :-( )

Whatever reason they just AREN'T considered luxury.

Would you buy a Hotpoint washing machine over a Maytag ? Same reasons probably apply.

[Batmobile_Turbo]

well, Cadillacs have improved a lot recently, and the new XLR is a very good handler.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Batmobile_Turbo

well, Cadillacs have improved a lot recently, and the new XLR is a very good handler.

I'm asking this coz I can't test the car.

How OBjectively have you tested the handling ?
It may be improved and 'better' than <put marque here>, but is that US or European spec ?

Most Europen manufacturers tweak suspension for US market.

We like to steer cars, most of the US market wants to be able to drink coffe, eat doughnuts, be on a call and taking notes wile driving. They aren't alwats compatible. NOTE :-) :-) :-)

[Batmobile_Turbo]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

I'm asking this coz I can't test the car.

How OBjectively have you tested the handling ?
It may be improved and 'better' than <put marque here>, but is that US or European spec ?

Most Europen manufacturers tweak suspension for US market.

We like to steer cars, most of the US market wants to be able to drink coffe, eat doughnuts, be on a call and taking notes wile driving. They aren't alwats compatible. NOTE :-) :-) :-)

the XLR has the chassis of the C6 corvette, wich can handle as good as or better than the SL500. the XLR is a 2 seat sports car, ok? and just because there are some idiots who drink coffe and talk on their cell while driving that doesn't mean that all north american people don't like to steer their cars.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Batmobile_Turbo

the XLR has the chassis of the C6 corvette, wich can handle as good as or better than the SL500. the XLR is a 2 seat sports car, ok? and just because there are some idiots who drink coffe and talk on their cell while driving that doesn't mean that all north american people don't like to steer their cars.

and that's why I added the smileys to the closing joke.

See, I don't get the Corvette either. it handles like a PIG on steroids.
No turn-in, no feedback, easy to get sideways !!
I've always wondered what it might drive like with some soft European tyres - you do know that tyre compunds are different for all the different markets.

Comparing it to the SL500 is like saying the USS Enterprise can turn as good as the USS George Washington. They're all huge barges that use BIG engines and lots of power to get over the weight.

Sorry, I wasn't comparing like with like when I make a comparative statement on handling. Yes, it's probably as good as the rest in its class.

[Batmobile_Turbo]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

and that's why I added the smileys to the closing joke.

See, I don't get the Corvette either. it handles like a PIG on steroids.
No turn-in, no feedback, easy to get sideways !!
I've always wondered what it might drive like with some soft European tyres - you do know that tyre compunds are different for all the different markets.

Comparing it to the SL500 is like saying the USS Enterprise can turn as good as the USS George Washington. They're all huge barges that use BIG engines and lots of power to get over the weight.

Sorry, I wasn't comparing like with like when I make a comparative statement on handling. Yes, it's probably as good as the rest in its class.

the C5 Corvette is a very good handler not like the past generations of Corvettes that had only average and poor handling. and just because Corvettes and XLRs don't handle like a Matra doesn't mean they handle poorly or that they are bad cars.
and also what closing joke? if that was meant to be funny, your not very clever

[dupscadi]

I don't know what Cadillac you where drivin, but I must say that my CTS handles fairly well for a car that as some one once said, "Soft and bouncy and floaty and "comfortabel" yes". I like it. Peace!

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by dupscadi

I don't know what Cadillac you where drivin, but I must say that my CTS handles fairly well for a car that as some one once said, "Soft and bouncy and floaty and "comfortabel" yes". I like it. Peace!

That was the point I thought I was trying to get over.
We each have our own idea, mainly driven by what's available for us to drive.

It's backed up with the bike you list. The Buell is NOT a successful bike in Europe becuase we expect high-revving, fast and nimble bikes. The X-1 is marketed as that but doesn't ride like an R1 a Gixxer or 'Blade.

Often the fuel, tyres and engine management differences can make a big difference on a bike - not so much on cars.

We all like different things - thankfully - but we should be able to express our differences and try to explore the reasons. And in Europe Cadillac aren't seen as successful luxury cars. That's the way it is and I've tried to explain why that may be so from my perspective.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Batmobile_Turbo

the C5 Corvette is a very good handler not like the past generations of Corvettes that had only average and poor handling. and just because Corvettes and XLRs don't handle like a Matra doesn't mean they handle poorly or that they are bad cars.
and also what closing joke? if that was meant to be funny, your not very clever

Wow Christmass spirit didn't last long. The point of the smileys was to show the statement was NOT meant in full honesty., that it should be seen as a comical statement.

BTW, the Matra Bagheera's are NOT well-handling cars.
They lack the power and engine responsiveness to steer a rear-engined car in a drift. Torsion-bar suspension doesn't make for the easiest to tune !!
I got another Bagheera because it was the first car I owned and I love the looks. It was NOT for performance and handling.

The Murena's only mildly better.

And I don't have a problem saying that.
Not every car we own, or wish for, can be the best in every area.

No smileys.

[Batmobile_Turbo]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Wow Christmass spirit didn't last long. The point of the smileys was to show the statement was NOT meant in full honesty., that it should be seen as a comical statement.

BTW, the Matra Bagheera's are NOT well-handling cars.
They lack the power and engine responsiveness to steer a rear-engined car in a drift. Torsion-bar suspension doesn't make for the easiest to tune !!
I got another Bagheera because it was the first car I owned and I love the looks. It was NOT for performance and handling.

The Murena's only mildly better.

And I don't have a problem saying that.
Not every car we own, or wish for, can be the best in every area.

No smileys.

ok i'm sorry if i'm coming off a bit harsh, i didn't notice the smileys in your other comment, but if you want smileys then there are a bunch of them in the tool box beside where you make your comments like these
i suppose we got off on the wrong foot so let's be friends, instead of quarreling idiots.

[Swissbeatz]

Originally Posted by DiabloGTR

And in second, I know that Jaguar is still an english company but Americans don't have luxury cars like BMW or Benz. Sorry but a Cadillac is not considered like a luxury car in Europa. It's why I have put Jaguar as an American car. IT JUST FOR THIS GAME.

I consider you a jackass.

Anyways, I think comparing entire car companies of different nations is stupid. It's not going to solve anything, and your saying bullshit like, "Cadillac is not considered like a luxury car in Europa."
You damn well know that your beloved German car companies wouldn't be anywhere without the US market, because a major part of their sales are in America, thats why this topic is retarded.
If your trying to bash the United States, please find another way.

Ok You think I'm a jackass? ok it's nice. I can just notice that your language is like you, very very cheap.
I don't know where you live but you don't know many things about Europa. In european roads american cars are not greats. And you know why? it's just because they can't respond to many european norms. Tell me which American Brand can beat a BMW 7 series or a Mercedes S-Class?? none. Sorry I love Amrica, my wife is american but you must admit that their cars are not famous exept their SUVs.
And you told me that

Originally Posted by DiabloGTR

You damn well know that your beloved German car companies wouldn't be anywhere without the US market, because a major part of their sales are in America

It's exact, the american market is one of the biggest in the world and that's why Europan firms are in USA. But I'm not talking about american market, I'm talking about american brands. And if you look after rich americans, what do they got in their garage? An European car like BMW ,Benz or Audi or Porsche and an American sport car like Chey Corvette or Dodge Viper. That's a fact. A Cadillac CTS has been created for overbalance the trend. That's a fact son.


And please I didn't attack you so don't insult me next time. That's a car forum not a fight forum.

[Swissbeatz]

Originally Posted by Egg Nog

You saying this is just about as paranoid as the United States' national security policy

Try not to jump to any conclusions, here... he never said anything directly against the US, he just said that Cadillac's aren't really considered to be luxury cars in Europe? Gee, he might be right, and he might not be, but don't you think its a little bit harsh to react like that?

He he I agree with you, I didn't say anything wrong about USA. USA is a great contry I don't agree with their politics like many countries but the fact is it will stay a great country. But they must do something about their cars except their SUVs. The Lincoln Navigator and the Cadillac Escalade are GREAT. The Chevy Corvette is awesome, the Dodge Viper is awesome, the Cadillac CTS is the best american car. But the rest is a real shame (Chevy Cavalier, Chevy Malibu and more).
Cadillac is a great Brand but they don't got a car who can confront a BMW 7-series or A Benz S-Class. Or we all know that the S and the 7 are considered like the top of the luxury class except the Rolls and the Bentley.

[DiabloGTR]

Originally Posted by Swissbeatz

Ok You think I'm a jackass? ok it's nice. I can just notice that your language is like you, very very cheap.
I don't know where you live but you don't know many things about Europa. In european roads american cars are not greats. And you know why? it's just because they can't respond to many european norms. Tell me which American Brand can beat a BMW 7 series or a Mercedes S-Class?? none. Sorry I love Amrica, my wife is american but you must admit that their cars are not famous exept their SUVs.
And you told me that
It's exact, the american market is one of the biggest in the world and that's why Europan firms are in USA. But I'm not talking about american market, I'm talking about american brands. And if you look after rich americans, what do they got in their garage? An European car like BMW ,Benz or Audi or Porsche and an American sport car like Chey Corvette or Dodge Viper. That's a fact. A Cadillac CTS has been created for overbalance the trend. That's a fact son.


And please I didn't attack you so don't insult me next time. That's a car forum not a fight forum.

I'm sorry, I was far to harsh. It's just that I don't see the point of this thread. I perosnally like European cars better than Japanese and American cars myself. So, if you know German cars will get the vote over most American cars, then what is the point of making this thread?
There aren't any American flagship sedans that can compete with the 7-series and S class. Everyone knows that...

[Batmobile_Turbo]

Originally Posted by Swissbeatz

He he I agree with you, I didn't say anything wrong about USA. USA is a great contry I don't agree with their politics like many countries but the fact is it will stay a great country. But they must do something about their cars except their SUVs. The Lincoln Navigator and the Cadillac Escalade are GREAT. The Chevy Corvette is awesome, the Dodge Viper is awesome, the Cadillac CTS is the best american car. But the rest is a real shame (Chevy Cavalier, Chevy Malibu and more).
Cadillac is a great Brand but they don't got a car who can confront a BMW 7-series or A Benz S-Class. Or we all know that the S and the 7 are considered like the top of the luxury class except the Rolls and the Bentley.

well cadillac is thinking of making a V12 luxury sedan based on the sixteen.

[dupscadi]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

That was the point I thought I was trying to get over.
We each have our own idea, mainly driven by what's available for us to drive.

It's backed up with the bike you list. The Buell is NOT a successful bike in Europe becuase we expect high-revving, fast and nimble bikes. The X-1 is marketed as that but doesn't ride like an R1 a Gixxer or 'Blade.

Often the fuel, tyres and engine management differences can make a big difference on a bike - not so much on cars.

We all like different things - thankfully - but we should be able to express our differences and try to explore the reasons. And in Europe Cadillac aren't seen as successful luxury cars. That's the way it is and I've tried to explain why that may be so from my perspective.

Little know fact about the Buell. They sell more in Europe than the do in North America. And as for rideing like a R1 or Gixxer, thank god it doesn't. I like the hooligan part of the bike. Always havin one wheel, be it the front or the back in the air is the fun of it. Plus it's loud. loud is good, to me anyway. It's all about the fun you have while riden or drivin. That's why we all like the things with wheels. Peace!