Godzilla (as they call it) Vs whatever it seems

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by john14

I believe many European, American and Australian people don't like the Nissan Skyline GT-R just because it's an Asian car. I hate the fact that so many Europeans, Americans and Australian are so biased to cars from their own continent and think cars that were made, designed and engineered in other continents are really bad. That attitude stinks.

Although harsh, you have a point. The same way I'm sure you'd have a bias if Australia or Ireland (I believe you're of Irish descent) played [insert team here] in the Olympics. Naturally, you're closer to the homeland/ancestry.

I like to consider myself a non-partisaned person, but my biggest qualm with the skyline is it's following. I hate things that become really trendy or overly popular to the point that it gets sick. I don't have an iPod, I hate drifting/street-racing, I hate the New York Yankees, etc. For this same reason, I wouldn't be caught dead saying the Nissan Skyline is my favorite car. For one, I don't want two 15 year old wannabe-gangsta homies come up to me and be all, "oh sh1t hell yeah man teh skyline is sickk they hav like 1400 hp" and second, I'm not a fan of it's path from the natural roots of a sports car. It's heavy, it's too digitalized and computer controlled, and it's too hyped whether this hype is granted or not. And before someone replies with this, the Corvette suffers from hype like this, as does a Ferrari or McLaren F1 or ...

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by h22a

unless you can provide some sort of evidence that US spec GTR's are different to EU spec, assumptions are useless.

i'm looking for that article, i just can't find now, sorry. what i was saying was that probably, as this article said, J and US cars would be different. so even J and EU ones. i will continue to searching it later.

Originally Posted by kingofthering

Ahh... but the key ingredient is price; the GT-R brings all those fancy-schmancy gizmos to a price that the average Joe, with a bit of saving-up, could buy. Unlike the Bugatti, which costs as much as 10 GT-Rs and requires a special invitation.

as i said, it's the real thing that surprise me, and i guessed it is a sort of marketing idea, and a good one: no profit on the car, but a huge ad, really more expensive.

Originally Posted by kingofthering

Motor Trend found that it was significantly higher than 480 at the crank. Something closer to 600.

if they tested the car on the dyno, the number could be more accurate. and between 510 and 600 hp there is a huge difference.

Originally Posted by P4g4nite

Leon, what the heck is this thread about? besides a collection of your finest GTR conspiracy theories.

i just want to dismount the "the hype following it" as h22a said. i don't like the car that's for sure, but what i really don't like is the fact that a lot of people are simply drolling on every statements, sometimes very unofficial, saying the car did something better than another car, or that it has 600 hp or what else. it's becoming too much of a legend. i simply want some official, verified facts, as for every car so groundbreaking. i did the same some years ago with the Veyron, just i wasn't on this forum since i joined last year.

Originally Posted by clutch-monkey

he's right so far as i can see though.
going by your argument, you could say GM's LS7 is pushing engine technology foward because they made it all lighter and more fuel efficient.
never mind those are metallurgical advances

i said anything about the Corvette up to now, and by the way, it's not only about metallurgical technologies, since even if you could create an even lighter engine, it doesn't mean that it can works without suffering too much the heat dispersion, since you need mass/volume to disperse it, or maybe it could also brake itself since it could be too tiny for the forces generated. so, a lighter and more fuel efficient engine it's a huge improvement, yes. i am afraid you don't seem to understand that.
and i would really appreciate if you, and others, could give some reason why my arguments seem to be wrong, not just saying "fail" and nothing more. it's not a conversation/discussion in this way. i am trying to give a lot of technical explanations for my arguments, and i am very sorry that i can express everything i would like to say because of my english.

Originally Posted by clutch-monkey

because no-one else tests 0-60 times at drag strips, right?

i was referring to the opposite situation. since a lot of cars leave a layer of rubber on the road surface, the grip is higher because of a major chemical affinity. on the other side, running on a surface of the same kind of your tires will allowed a major transfer of rubber from your tires to the ground, so they would deteriorate very early.

Originally Posted by john14

I believe many European, American and Australian people don't like the Nissan Skyline GT-R just because it's an Asian car. I hate the fact that so many Europeans, Americans and Australian are so biased to cars from their own continent and think cars that were made, designed and engineered in other continents are really bad. That attitude stinks.

i truly like the NSX, or the Mitsu "i", i am interested in Toyota's hybrid technology and in the Mazda's idea of continuing the development of the Wankel engine even with hydrogen. so it's not my case. i am not interested from which country a car comes, but it has to be built properly, no matter of which kind of car it is.

Originally Posted by h22a

take it easy bro. its only a select group of narrow minded people hating on the GTR. I can assure you the majority off people on UCP probably like the GTR, just not the hype following it.
chill out on the sweeping statements

you steal those words from my mouth.


sorry for the very long post.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

I like to consider myself a non-partisaned person, but my biggest qualm with the skyline is it's following. ...

maybe it becomes time to develop some independent judgement

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by henk4

maybe it becomes time to develop some independent judgement

Damn you Henk, I should have worded that a bit better.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

Damn you Henk, I should have worded that a bit better.

well it is always a bit strange when you say I don't like it because other people like it too much...

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

and i would really appreciate if you, and others, could give some reason why my arguments seem to be wrong, not just saying "fail" and nothing more. it's not a conversation/discussion in this way. i am trying to give a lot of technical explanations for my arguments, and i am very sorry that i can express everything i would like to say because of my english.

Look at the country icon next to their Username. The common theme of Australia in your quotes will explain all of these issues. The only way to beat Australians is with humiliation, that's why ECC runs **** on MSN against them.

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by henk4

well it is always a bit strange when you say I don't like it because other people like it too much...

Understood. When I said I was non-partisaned, obviously I'll have tastes, but meant it in I try to enter a choice as unbiased as possible. I guess as an example, as a Democrat and unlike most involved in the voting process, when I look at this current election I weigh the candidates not by party affiliation but by who will benefit America most. I'm not going to leave John McCain out in the wind because he's a Republican, even though he's obviously at a disadvantage since I agree more with Democratic party principles than I do with Republicans.

In the post I made, I only highlighted the problems with the car, as I would have problems with any other car. The skyline is an engineering masterpiece, and amazingly good at what it does for that price point, don't get me wrong. I just said I wouldn't be caught dead announcing it's my favorite car, because one of my distastes is hopping on the bandwagon and liking something for reasons unknown besides, ''everyone else is doin' it''.

To make a conclusion, and to link my two points together since it seems to drift off. My point with the Presidential election is similar to that of my entering into the skyline debate. I, a Democrat look at John McCain the same way I look at Obama. I will look at their credentials, talking points, and strategy for reform, and decide from there. HOWEVER, naturally and as I stated, Obama/Clinton would obviously be at an advantage because my partial allegiance for Democratic values carries through to Democratic candidates and is rivaled by the Republican party, putting John McCain at an IMMEDIATE disadvantage. So to create a segway, the Skyline is the proverbial John McCain. I know the Skyline's past, the same way I know the Republican trend. I know it'll come in with hype, I know it'll come in heavy, have electronics and some 'omfg wtf how?' 4wd system, but I disregard this when the car is first revealed. But, these same trends will reveal themselves again in the car seeing as a nameplate in design will not change drastically but only improve itself. Since the trends are still there, being partisaned didn't lead me to disliking the car to a certain extent, but to eventually deciding that it's not the best car for ME.

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

i'm looking for that article, i just can't find now, sorry. what i was saying was that probably, as this article said, J and US cars would be different. so even J and EU ones. i will continue to searching it later.

no you are right, suspension at least is different for US market cars (and retro fitted to jap market ones)

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

i just want to dismount the "the hype following it" as h22a said. i don't like the car that's for sure, but what i really don't like is the fact that a lot of people are simply drolling on every statements, sometimes very unofficial, saying the car did something better than another car, or that it has 600 hp or what else. it's becoming too much of a legend. i simply want some official, verified facts, as for every car so groundbreaking.

a lot of the facts are official, or enough so that it doesn't matter.
that said, a lot of the figures are slightly suspect but it's nothing major; it doesn't matter which way you look at it, it's still a fast car. just completely undesirable, imo.
the one thing that i have disregarded to this point is the nurburgring time, lol.

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

i said anything about the Corvette up to now, and by the way, it's not only about metallurgical technologies, since even if you could create an even lighter engine, it doesn't mean that it can works without suffering too much the heat dispersion, since you need mass/volume to disperse it, or maybe it could also brake itself since it could be too tiny for the forces generated. so, a lighter and more fuel efficient engine it's a huge improvement, yes. i am afraid you don't seem to understand that.
and i would really appreciate if you, and others, could give some reason why my arguments seem to be wrong, not just saying "fail" and nothing more. it's not a conversation/discussion in this way. i am trying to give a lot of technical explanations for my arguments, and i am very sorry that i can express everything i would like to say because of my english.

your english is fine
it's just the concepts behind your english seem fuddled or erroneous

Originally Posted by Rockefella

Look at the country icon next to their Username. The common theme of Australia in your quotes will explain all of these issues. The only way to beat Australians is with humiliation, that's why ECC runs **** on MSN against them.

try sports maybe

[LeonOfTheDead]

JDM Nissan GT-R benefits from U.S. market tweaks - Autoblog

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

Understood. When I said I was non-partisaned, obviously I'll have tastes, but meant it in I try to enter a choice as unbiased as possible. I guess as an example, as a Democrat and unlike most involved in the voting process, when I look at this current election I weigh the candidates not by party affiliation but by who will benefit America most. I'm not going to leave John McCain out in the wind because he's a Republican, even though he's obviously at a disadvantage since I agree more with Democratic party principles than I do with Republicans.

In the post I made, I only highlighted the problems with the car, as I would have problems with any other car. The skyline is an engineering masterpiece, and amazingly good at what it does for that price point, don't get me wrong. I just said I wouldn't be caught dead announcing it's my favorite car, because one of my distastes is hopping on the bandwagon and liking something for reasons unknown besides, ''everyone else is doin' it''.

To make a conclusion, and to link my two points together since it seems to drift off. My point with the Presidential election is similar to that of my entering into the skyline debate. I, a Democrat look at John McCain the same way I look at Obama. I will look at their credentials, talking points, and strategy for reform, and decide from there. HOWEVER, naturally and as I stated, Obama/Clinton would obviously be at an advantage because my partial allegiance for Democratic values carries through to Democratic candidates and is rivaled by the Republican party, putting John McCain at an IMMEDIATE disadvantage. So to create a segway, the Skyline is the proverbial John McCain. I know the Skyline's past, the same way I know the Republican trend. I know it'll come in with hype, I know it'll come in heavy, have electronics and some 'omfg wtf how?' 4wd system, but I disregard this when the car is first revealed. But, these same trends will reveal themselves again in the car seeing as a nameplate in design will not change drastically but only improve itself. Since the trends are still there, being partisaned didn't lead me to disliking the car to a certain extent, but to eventually deciding that it's not the best car for ME.

i understand you argument. and i agree.
i have the same problem in our election in italy, since i am what here could be called a democratic, but since our democratic party lacked of good a candidate, i looked also at the republican party...but i didn't find nothing good or new. besides my political misadventure, your comparison with the GT-R is very good. it's not my kind of car but i would be able to clean it from its following, maybe i could at least appreciate some of its peculiarity as i did in the end with the Veyron, which still isn't my favorite supercar, or "I wouldn't be caught dead announcing it's my favorite car"

[henk4]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

i understand you argument. and i agree.
i have the same problem in our election in italy, since i am what here could be called a democratic, but since our democratic party lacked of good a candidate, i looked also at the republican party...but i didn't find nothing good or new. besides my political misadventure, your comparison with the GT-R is very good. it's not my kind of car but i would be able to clean it from its following, maybe i could at least appreciate some of its peculiarity as i did in the end with the Veyron, which still isn't my favorite supercar, or "I wouldn't be caught dead announcing it's my favorite car"

each analogy has its flaws, but in this case the comparison with the pure choice between two presidential candidates in the USA, based on their personalities is incorrect, because under the American system you will not only elect the president but he will also choose his cabinet and advisers, which will mostly originate from the party that gave him the candidacy in the first place. And on top of that they will choose a running mate too.
And as far as Italy is concerned, the continuos reemergence on scene of Mr. B. never fails to baffle me. I know Italians are less organised but that they are really stupid too....

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by henk4

each analogy has its flaws, but in this case the comparison with the pure choice between two presidential candidates in the USA, based on therr personalities is incorrect, because under the American system you will not only elect the president but he will also choose his cabinet and advisers, which will mostly originate from the party that gave him the candidacy in the first place.

When nit-picking yes, but I tried to convey this in more general terms. It's hard for something to remain valid up until the very smallest details are debated. That's why discussions/arguments never end here. It becomes a battle of who can prove the error in the smallest of details here.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

It becomes a battle of who can prove the error in the smallest of details here.

hence we recently got this thread about the flawless GTR that appeared to have a flaw?

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by henk4

hence we recently got this thread about the flawless GTR that appeared to have a flaw?

Sure, but I don't bother getting involved in those threads due to lack of closure.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

Sure, but I don't bother getting involved in those threads due to lack of closure.

yes, I just surprised myself, finding me in THIS thread