Le Mans VS F1

[dydzi]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

So what exactly did they make to compete in the GT1 class, or do they not have cars in GT1 class altogether?

it's the same as in FIA GT since the fall of 90's... you can see all the results with the name of cars and specific classes here: http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans/chronos/h24.pdf

Porsche do not have car in GT1 now. in previous rules, the GT1 car was 911 GT1. in GT2 they run 997 GT3 RSR, which is a very different car to GT3 RS. As for now, Ferrari also runs only GT2 car - F430 GTC (430 Scuderia does not compete anywhere), which is made in two versions - GT2 and GT3 (which competes in FIA GT3 class). in GT1 they had 575 GTC and couple of 550 versions made by italtecnica, prodrive and weith, not ferrari itself

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by henk4

LMP cars achieve topspeeds that current F1 cars can only dream of.

And F1 cars can generate downforce that LMP cars can only dream of.

[The_Canuck]

I'd like to see a P2 cars level of downforce compared to a F1 car's.

[RacingManiac]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

And F1 cars can generate downforce that LMP cars can only dream of.

I doubt it. Downforce to weight ratio on F1 car is much better, but outright number is very similar at current competition. But last batch of Group C car in the the early 90s makes insane level of downforce, some are close and even exceeding 10000lb, with L/D ratio over 5:1. No F1 car can ever do that...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

And F1 cars can generate downforce that LMP cars can only dream of.

as far as "flying" is concerned, i am sure you remember Kubica's "fly past" in the Canada GP from last year....

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

I doubt it. Downforce to weight ratio on F1 car is much better, but outright number is very similar at current competition. But last batch of Group C car in the the early 90s makes insane level of downforce, some are close and even exceeding 10000lb, with L/D ratio over 5:1. No F1 car can ever do that...

My mistake.

Originally Posted by henk4

as far as "flying" is concerned, i am sure you remember Kubica's "fly past" in the Canada GP from last year....

This is true!

[jugga]

surely alot of the flying is due to track condition. le mans tracks are normally less perfected than f1 tracks so there is a greater chance of the car get high enough to loose downforce.

also a lemans car is like rectangle underneath and a f1 car like a thin strip with wheels so surely the air will effect the le mans more in that way.

[RacingManiac]

definitely, the full bottom on on a LMP car just makes it so much easier to catch air when the car is presented in some odd angle or attitude. I am sure that the condition of the spin and track surface is the main reason whether or not the car flip/fly across the track....Most of the accident this year all happened at highspeed when the car goes over grass or curb which means its likely the car will bounce over something...

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

The difference between GT1 and GT2 is the level of development allowed on them. Modifications for GT2 are limited, while GT1 cars are virtual prototypes that retain the overall shape and chassis of the original cars, but include many, many modifications. The Porsche 993 GT2 was a GT1 (was known as GT2 back then) car as was the Ferrari 575 GTC.

Originally Posted by dydzi

it's the same as in FIA GT since the fall of 90's... you can see all the results with the name of cars and specific classes here: http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans/chronos/h24.pdf

Porsche do not have car in GT1 now. in previous rules, the GT1 car was 911 GT1. in GT2 they run 997 GT3 RSR, which is a very different car to GT3 RS. As for now, Ferrari also runs only GT2 car - F430 GTC (430 Scuderia does not compete anywhere), which is made in two versions - GT2 and GT3 (which competes in FIA GT3 class). in GT1 they had 575 GTC and couple of 550 versions made by italtecnica, prodrive and weith, not ferrari itself

I see. So the GT1 class is dead now?

But what exactly did they create to conform to the rules?

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

I doubt it. Downforce to weight ratio on F1 car is much better, but outright number is very similar at current competition. But last batch of Group C car in the the early 90s makes insane level of downforce, some are close and even exceeding 10000lb, with L/D ratio over 5:1. No F1 car can ever do that...

But wouldn't that create too much drag, making a slower car altogether?

[DanWheldon]

Originally Posted by henk4

LMP cars achieve topspeeds that current F1 cars can only dream of.

actually that stopped in 1999, but in the Group C years the LM cars were in a tough battle with turbo powered F1 cars to see which one had the best top speed

[RacingManiac]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

But wouldn't that create too much drag, making a slower car altogether?

Having L/D ratio of 5:1 as opposed to something of 2.5:1, means that at the same level of downforce its only generating half the drag, leading up to much higher top speed with similar cornering potential, making a car that can potentially overcome the weight disadvantage of the closed-wheel sportscar on a track. In the 3.5L formula Group C car, despite being 150kg heavier than the comparable era 3.5 L F1 cars(and having less power due to the endurance nature of the car, although the engine are comparable as 3.5L Group C cars infact uses the same engine reg as the F1 cars at the time), can lap within 2 sec of their lap time. In fact I believe from looking at time from 1991 or 1992, the pole sitting Group C car could infact qualify 6th on the British GP of the same year.....

Similar trend can be seen now actually in IRL vs ALMS cars. At track like St. Pete where both series run on the same weekend, the ALMS LMP1 and LMP2 cars are qualifying within a sec of the IRL cars, despite the IRL cars being lighter as well. Although to note that the spec nature of the IRL series do tend to limit the technological advancement of the series compare to the LMP cars now....

[kingofthering]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

I see. So the GT1 class is dead now?

But what exactly did they create to conform to the rules?

Porsche had the 911 GT1, while the Corvettes basically won forever until Aston and even Ferrari unseated their domination.

Hopefully the Aston victory brings more privateers back so that ALMS GT1 is not a 2 car class.

[RacingManiac]

Well nothing's changed in the balance of GT1 before and after Le Mans, since Aston won last year as well but still no car in GT1 other than Vette all this time....Its hard for any private team to compete with a factory outfit, even with a good car....

[Jack_Bauer]

Originally Posted by henk4

LMP cars achieve topspeeds that current F1 cars can only dream of.

I'm interested to know where you got that idea from?

Out of interest, what sort of top speeds were the LMP cars making on the Mulsanne straights this year? I couldn't find any top speed stats on the official timing pdf sheets.

[Wouter Melissen]

Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer

I'm interested to know where you got that idea from?

Out of interest, what sort of top speeds were the LMP cars making on the Mulsanne straights this year? I couldn't find any top speed stats on the official timing pdf sheets.

At least 345 km/h, but the ACO reported the Dome ran 358 km/h, although that figure sounds a bit fishy.