Is this the end of pop up lights?

[kitkat]

the xj220 had headlights that pop down instead of pop up.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by kitkat

the xj220 had headlights that pop down instead of pop up.

So do Quantum Coupe kit cars

[Gabman]

Originally Posted by itisi

and the pop up lights cause a lot of damage to pedastrians if you would hit them

If you hit a pedestrian with your car I don't think the headlights matter much, neither the built-in nor the pop ups...

[crisis]

Originally Posted by Gabman

If you hit a pedestrian with your car I don't think the headlights matter much, neither the built-in nor the pop ups...

Exactly. Its similar to the roo bar on 4x4 debate. The complaint being they are lethal to pedestrians. Me thinks it may have more to do with the three tonne of car behind it.

[crisis]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Another aside funny story .. the aerodyanmic drag of the headlamps on the Bagheera becomes critical as the cars age when the pneumatic light lift becomes weak ( it uses the inlet manifold vacuum from the engine at the REAR of the car !! ). Once the light is lifted an inch clear of the body a little spurt of extra speed helps pop them up quickly !!!! And there is NO way it can pull the lights closed if doing more then 40mph. But, why would you want to ??? Ah the joys of owning 'classic' cars

I have rarely seen pop up lights on a car 10 years old or more that work properly, fit properly or have not had to have some kind of maintainence to restore them to working order. All in all a gimmick of a past era.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Gabman

If you hit a pedestrian with your car I don't think the headlights matter much, neither the built-in nor the pop ups...

The problem is pop-ups offer sharp edges and trapment areas which impart focussed high energy impact on the parts the passenger hits.
Rolling onto a large bonnet ( aka hood ) after a hit is 'safer' than rolling onto ( or snagging ) a sticking piece of metal and actuating rods
The 'roo bars were similar, they did not GIVE the way the designers have engineered front ends to buffer the pedestrian and spread the energy of the impact.
EU laws in the next few years are going to require MAJOR changes in the front end construction to focus on pedestrian safety in impacts. Some cars are already doing an excellent job in reducing injuires in the event of impact.
Look out for low nose styling returning as it assists making a pedestrian 'roll' onto the bonnet. Many cars are too high and impart a foward motion to the body rather than a rotation. Could be the end of SUVs - HURRAH

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by crisis

I have rarely seen pop up lights on a car 10 years old or more that work properly, fit properly or have not had to have some kind of maintainence to restore them to working order. All in all a gimmick of a past era.

A bit like todays ricers, some manufacturers were putting pop-up lights on run-of-the-mill cars to try to gain some of the cachet of great sportscars.
REAL cars with pop-up lights used them to be able to have decent lights in a sleek bodyshape. Lighting technology was NOT very advanced then.
Todays, smart and VERY intense lighting solutions enable designers to build decent lights into a VERY sleek shape.
So not a gimmick, a necessity due to the constraints of the day.

Were carbs a gimmick before fuel-injection was invented - course not

[PsychoChimp22]

I was never really into the popup lights, maybe it is because i was born in 1990.... hum

[cls12vg30]

A bit like todays ricers, some manufacturers were putting pop-up lights on run-of-the-mill cars to try to gain some of the cachet of great sportscars.

Yeah like the 1988 Honda Accord hatchback I drove in college. 98 horsepower, slow as can be. But it had popup lights.

[Spastik_Roach]

Most Hondas back in the early 1990's had pop up lights, as did the Toyota MR2. Seemed they were the big thing with the Japanese back then. Lets see what else, Mazda MX-5, Mazda RX-7 (2nd and 1st Gen) Mazda Astina, and i'm sure one Ford back then did have them, just can't remember. And not to mention a few Porsches, namely the 944. And one of those Subaru 4wd Turbo Coupes had them (from the mid 80's, the pic below is what i'm talking about.)





I have still never come across a 4wd off roader using pop up lights though?

[cls12vg30]

Oh gosh LOTS of Japanese cars had popups, the RX-7 all the way through the FD, MkII and MkIII Toyota Supras, Celicas throughout the '80s and up to '94, the 84-89 300ZX, the Ford Probe (a Mazda MX-6 underneath), the Honda Prelude, and of course the 84-88 Nissan 200SX and 89-94 240SX.

As far as American cars, the Pontiac Firebird had popups from 1982 all the way to the last ones in 2001 I think. Also the Dodge Daytona from 87 to about 92 or so.

Then there were lots of American sedans that didn't have aerodynamic shapes but had their headlights behind vertical doors. The Dodge Charger sported them 1966-1970. Lots of Lincolns and Chryslers had them too.

[Gabman]

Some version of the Mazda 323 has them too, I'm not into that brand enough to tell exactly which one.

The BMW 850 has pops too AFAIR? (Google told me yes: http://home.swipnet.se/~w-27507/850tun6.jpg)

[itisi]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

The problem is pop-ups offer sharp edges and trapment areas which impart focussed high energy impact on the parts the passenger hits.
Rolling onto a large bonnet ( aka hood ) after a hit is 'safer' than rolling onto ( or snagging ) a sticking piece of metal and actuating rods
The 'roo bars were similar, they did not GIVE the way the designers have engineered front ends to buffer the pedestrian and spread the energy of the impact.
EU laws in the next few years are going to require MAJOR changes in the front end construction to focus on pedestrian safety in impacts. Some cars are already doing an excellent job in reducing injuires in the event of impact.
Look out for low nose styling returning as it assists making a pedestrian 'roll' onto the bonnet. Many cars are too high and impart a foward motion to the body rather than a rotation. Could be the end of SUVs - HURRAH

thanks matra but about the bonnets what i heard was that they are going to get rounder and higher to create a bigger space between the hood and the engine so it could dent more on a impact and people dont smash on the engine but on a "softer" surface

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by itisi

thanks matra but about the bonnets what i heard was that they are going to get rounder and higher to create a bigger space between the hood and the engine so it could dent more on a impact and people dont smash on the engine but on a "softer" surface

The front of most manufacturers has already seen a 'rounding' of the front end.
it was conjecture on my part that as they try to pass the pedstrian survival test that they will want to induce more 'roll' of the victom rather than pivt and slam on bonnet.
The one comment I have heard is that most cars are going to have MAJOR problems making the area of the front strut top supports meet the new requirments. These are the most solid and immovable part of the fron of the car.If the bonnet construction has to be larger, bigger then they have to drop the front of it somehow or it will be like driving a Mack truck with NO visbiility in front

[crisis]

Originally Posted by itisi

thanks matra but about the bonnets what i heard was that they are going to get rounder and higher to create a bigger space between the hood and the engine so it could dent more on a impact and people dont smash on the engine but on a "softer" surface

Yep. Its all fine to be flung up onto the bonnet with busted shins but its your head that then ends up being slammed into the bonnet or the windscreen. I saw a kind on a bike with no helmet hit his head on the roof of a car the same way . He then had to land head first on the road when he finally came to rest.
1. Being flung up onto the bonnet of a car means you eventually have to land. The higher you go the harder you land.
2. The cartwheel effect generally means your head is going to take the impact.
There is no soft impact for a pedestrian when they are hit by a car. Its all a matter of degrees.