Force Dynamics

[kigango123]

Racing simulator development has increased its pace in recent years, But there always has been a final wall to conquer, Simulating Force. and in recent years there have been many attempts at conquering this frontier

The one that is particularly interesting to me is the force dynamics simulator which theoretically is a Plug and Play application for some PC simulators, that uses gravity to simulate forces encountered while driving

Here are Videos of the simulator running RBR and LFS

RBR trial


LFS trial



Official Demo
Force Dynamics Site

Please Discuss

[kigango123]

Just for some more visual aid, this is what a simulator is with and without force dynamics.

[Dino Scuderia]

Tilting the seat so much to replicate inertia is kind of odd....but the contraption appears to be very reactive.

[Matra et Alpine]

yeah I'd looked at this technology when it was first announced.
Definately a smart solution and could be good once the volume is there to get the prices down

[kigango123]

The only problem with the technology is that it has limitations, I doubt you could simulate the 2g force in some cars only with gravity.

But they have come out with their 401 simulator and i have heard rumors of them taking a crack at Forza 2 and the 360

[Alastor]

Originally Posted by kigango123

The only problem with the technology is that it has limitations, I doubt you could simulate the 2g force in some cars only with gravity.

But they have come out with their 401 simulator and i have heard rumors of them taking a crack at Forza 2 and the 360

It is not really a limit with the technology so much as it is a physical limit.

They are replicating acceleration using gravity, so the maximum acceleration that they could hope to sustain is 1g. There is just no way around that.

It gets worse if you need to create an acceleration in two direction simultaneously, because then you have to split that 1g of acceleration between the two directions.

In the end I don’t think it matter as a long as your brain interprets the acceleration as those caused by motion, and the 1g is normalized properly to represent the maximum possible acceleration for that vehicle.

[baddabang]

Why not just do the real thing for that price?

[kigango123]

Originally Posted by baddabang

Why not just do the real thing for that price?

Indeed,

If people are willing to pay so much money for realism, why are there not the developers willing to go the extra mile and invest in 6DoF(6 Degrees of freedom) simulators like the Williams formula one team simulator and the ones used for flight simulators instead of just this gravity thing.




Edit: Clarification

Originally Posted by Race sim central

The 301 has 3 Degrees Of Freedom (DOF) - I am guessing these are Pitch, Roll and Up/Down. I am under the impression that 6DOF allows Pitch, Roll, Yaw, Up/Down, Left/Right, Forward/Backward

[Matra et Alpine]

Because the "extra mile" is in reality a 100+ times increase in costs

[Alastor]

I am not sure how much six degrees of freedom buys you over three, but using gravity is exactly what flight simulators do.

Essentially the Force Dynamics guys are taking the next step and making high tech simulation hardware more affordable.

[Matra et Alpine]

The proper simulators use force to move in all directions and don't rely on gravity.
Do use it -- kind of hard not to

6 degrees means you can introduce movement WITHOUT tilt and these are more "realistic" ( for short periods of time )

[kigango123]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Because the "extra mile" is in reality a 100+ times increase in costs

How much more can it cost?, I look at the higher end simulators and they seem to use same type and number of components as the force dynamics guys except in their case they add a few actuators and they are substantially more realistic even if for its a short while.

Those force dynamics guys have done alot, with their new 401 simulator, and introduced yaw, left - right and foward - backward axis. but can their simulator be better i.e. (Be more realistic and significantly increase its quality to price ratio) if they abandoned gravity in general


Some force dynamics reviews are at race sim central along with the developers of the technology

[Alastor]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

The proper simulators use force to move in all directions and don't rely on gravity.
Do use it -- kind of hard not to

6 degrees means you can introduce movement WITHOUT tilt and these are more "realistic" ( for short periods of time )

First off, I am not talking about vibration or shock but sustainable accelerations.

Realizing the force is generated by an acceleration, not using gravity requires higher system velocities and much more displacement. I don't see how it is practical not to use gravity. If you tried to maintain 1g of lateral acceleration for one second then the simulator would have to move 4.9 meters not counting the ramp up and down.

This is also why I don't see the need for more than three degrees of freedom in the Force Dynamics setup. Using gravity in pitch, roll, and yaw in my opinion should be a reasonably cost effective method.