The confusing Holden line-up

[Duell]

After posting the Middle eastern Chevrolet Caprice, i scooped around on the GM site and came at the Australian section.

Now I'm really confused,

The middle eastern Caprice is the same as the German Opel Omega, the UK Vauxhall Omega, the American Cadillac Catera. But that makes sense because you market the same car under a different name in different countries.
But when it comes to Australia, you guys have got;
-Holden Caprice
-Holden Statesman
-Holden Commodore SS-Z (and many other version of the same commodore)

Why , in principle those are the same cars. Only the commodore has a slightly different nose/face.

Probably its a success because all three cars have just being updated, and they still look pretty much alike.

Question : What's the difference between these three cars, why would i (if I'd live down under) buy a Caprice instead of a Statesman or Commodore ?

[faksta]

BTW, I thought of it many times, too. So I'm not less interested in the answer.

[baddabang]

The statesman is a larger (I think largest?) luxury sedan in Australian, where as the Holden Caprice is a statesman with more luxury features and a bigger motor. The Commodore is smaller. I think this is right, indeed the Australian naming can be a tad confusing.

[silverhawk]

In the middle east the caprice is marketed as more luxurious than the Commodore (which is called the Lumina there).

i dont know about the austrailian market but heres how the cars are named in the middle east.
1st and 2nd picture: 2005/6 Chevrolet Caprice
3rd Picture: 2004/5 Chevrolet Lumina
4th and 6th picture: 2007 Caprice
5th picture: 2007 Lumina

[2ndclasscitizen]

Ok, so of the 6 pics you posted, the first 3 are VZ and WL model cars, which are based on the old Holden chassis dating back to 1978 VB Commodore which was a modified Opel Senator and are a Statesman, Caprice and SS-Z. The next 3 are VE and WM cars, based on the all-new, Holden developed GM Zeta chassis, and are a Caprice, Omega and Statesman models. Basically, the Statesman and Caprice are long-wheelbase luxury models, with the Caprice being the highest spec cars, with the V8 as standard unless you specify the V6. The Commodores are normal wheelbase, mass-produced cars. The VE Omega is the base model, lowest-spec car. The you have the Berlina, Calais, SV6, SS and SS-V in the VE model cars, which are increasingly higher in spec, with the SV6, SS and SS-V being sport models. The SS-Z was just a special model VZ SS Commodore with Monaro wheels and brakes.

The differences between the VZ/WL and VE/WM cars are huge. The VE is a vastly superior car. You'd buy a Caprice instead of Statesman if you wanted the extra options and could afford it, and get the LWB over the SWB if that's what you wanted.

http://www.holden.com.au/ will answer all, then go to HSV - E series

[Duell]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

Ok, so of the 6 pics you posted, the first 3 are VZ and WL model cars, which are based on the old Holden chassis dating back to 1978 VB Commodore which was a modified Opel Senator and are a Statesman, Caprice and SS-Z.

I intentionally put the old versions in it for the comparison
Here in Europe the Opel Senator was the highspec version of the Opel Omega.
I always loved the Senator, (when i was a kid )

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

The next 3 are VE and WM cars, based on the all-new, Holden developed GM Zeta chassis, and are a Caprice, Omega and Statesman models. Basically, the Statesman and Caprice are long-wheelbase luxury models, with the Caprice being the highest spec cars, with the V8 as standard unless you specify the V6. The Commodores are normal wheelbase, mass-produced cars. The VE Omega is the base model, lowest-spec car. The you have the Berlina, Calais, SV6, SS and SS-V in the VE model cars, which are increasingly higher in spec, with the SV6, SS and SS-V being sport models. The SS-Z was just a special model VZ SS Commodore with Monaro wheels and brakes.

The differences between the VZ/WL and VE/WM cars are huge. The VE is a vastly superior car. You'd buy a Caprice instead of Statesman if you wanted the extra options and could afford it, and get the LWB over the SWB if that's what you wanted.

http://www.holden.com.au/ will answer all, then go to HSV - E series

Although it's still a bit strange to have 3 cars with different names that look quit the same. I do understand your story and thanks for explaining it.

[nota]

Originally Posted by faksta

BTW, I thought of it many times, too. So I'm not less interested in the answer.

Current model VE/WM Holdens are unique and have no Opel paralel

And those older Holdens aka 'Chevrolets' may look similar in pics to Omega (or Catera) but in fact have major differences on closer inspection. They are comprehensively re-engineered from their Opel cousin

For a short explanation of the differences between Holdens and Opels you might want to have a look at the first post of this thread below. The author (Monaro SS) delivers a pretty reasonable overview, brief but accurate

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=14394

To underline these considerable differences between Omega and Commodore you doubters might want to have a look at two youtubes of pre-2006 Chevrolet Lumina SS - in reality a Holden Commodore SS which is rebadged as Chevrolet and exported from Oz to the Middle East. Their speedometers go to 260 km/h and have you ever seen an Omega that goes (or sounds!) like this?

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDG0Owsg96Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgi2v...elated&search=

[SlickHolden]

Seems like you have confused yourself by looking to far outside the box..
Opel connections from the past will confuse you more..

[kingofthering]

Who cares? Which one has the biggest potential for coming over to the U.S.?

I heard somewhere that the 'ute might come over.

[clutch-monkey]

the cars are all the same, just pick your engine and trim level, and you're done.
this article circa 2001 sums it up towards the end:

In understanding the Holden vehicle line, it helps to abandon your current notion of American platform engineering and branding; most of GM's US cars have totally different platforms, manufacturing plants, powertrains and styling, which means less economy of scale, subcontracting and shipping nightmares, lots of marketing tomfoolery, and extra cost passed on to you and me. The Aussies cut right to the meat of things: the cars are all the same, so pick your price/trim level and pick your engine (think Chevrolet circa 1957).

a little in detail:

Turns out the LS1 isn't the only performance powertrain. Just under the 225kW LS1 (called alternately the Generation III V8 or the Heritage V8 in Australia), is the Ecotec supercharged V6. Rated at 171 kW (that's 240 hp for us Yanks), the Ecotec supercharged V6 is none other than the Eaton-inflated 3.8-liter Buick V6 found in the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and the Regal GS. The big difference is that it's driven by the proper wheels via a Hydramatic 4L60E. Even more exciting is that next year's Australian version of the blown V6 will be uprated to 200 kW (approximately 270 hp) and be available with a 5-speed tiptronic automatic trans.The combination of Holden cars and powertrains is staggering. It's like the old days when you checked off the order blank with whatever engine you wanted. You can get pretty much every car in the line-up with any engine, from the bottom of the line Executive VX, to the top of the line Caprice. Make sure you're sitting down for this next one--preferrably with a box of tissues: We priced out a Holden Executive VX (the entry-level four-door sedan) with the 312-hp LS1, automatic four-speed trans, air conditioning, power windows and door locks, dual airbags (they're optional in Australia), traction control, limited slip differential, FE2 performance suspension, standard IRS, and cop-sized 205/65R15 tires (for the sleeper look) and came up with a list price equivalent to $19,730 US dollars. Un-frigging-believable.

Why so cheap? Other than a trio of econo boxes, GM's entire vehicle line-up in Australia is based on this one platform--the Opel Omega-derived GM2800. Australia being a modest-sized market (only 19 million blokes total), GM correctly decided to limit the number of platforms to keep costs down. Costs are further reduced by importing all of its engines from the US--the number of those also being limited to just three across the entire Commodore line. (The entry level is the Ecotec V6, a renamed naturally-aspirated 3800 Buick, rated here at 200 hp.)

One last tidbit of heart-wrenching technical info. The powertrains for the LS1-powered Commodores are directly from the F-body parts bin, that is to say the engine and trans (both A4 and M6) are the same as Camaro and Firebird. There are only minor differences in calibration due to the reduced quality of Australian fuel.

Just Call It A Commodore

Like we said before, try not to get all confused by Holden nomenclature. If you really need help, there are web sites you can go to for enlightenment. We found the "Unofficial Commodore Archive" (www.uq.net.au~zznweber/commodore/index.html) to be extremely helpful in sorting out the names and dates. Also, Holden's official site (www.holden.com.au) gave us the low-down on the current VX range. ("Range" is an Australian term for "car line," but also makes additional inference to the year or years it was built.)

Here's a primer. Australians rarely refer to their Holdens by model year. They go by "range," also known as a "series." For instance, the LS1 made its first appearance in the Holden Commodore/Calais in 1998, which began the VT II series. The VT series (including VT I and VT II) ran from September 1997 to September 2000. We're now on the VX series (September 2000 to present). The next series will be the VY series. (Technically, the SS Ute is a VU series as it was designed just prior to the VX series, even though it was actually introduced to the public after the VX.) Series built previous to the VT offered Australian-specific powerplants (VP, 1991-1993; VR, 1993-1995; VS, 1995-1997), which is why until recently, Holdens rarely drew attention from American audiences. Now that GM is trying to share powertrains across its international divisions (i.e., LS1 Vortec and Buick V6), we now have reason to be curious--and envious, but we digress.

There is just one rearwheel drive platform at Holden, which is broken down into a short- and a long-wheelbase variant. The short wheelbase variant (at 2788mm) is the basis for the Executive Sedan, Acclaim Sedan, Commodore S, Commodore SS, Commodore Equipe Sedan, Berlina Sedan and Calais, while the long-wheelbase version (2939mm) is home to the Executive Wagon, Acclaim Wagon, Commodore Equipe Wagon, Berlina Wagon, Ute, S Ute, SS Ute, Statesman and top-of-the-line Caprice. Both short- and long-wheelbase RWD variants share the LS1 as either standard equipment or an available option. Every single one of them, we might add, features IRS and four-wheel disc brakes as standard equipment. Now imagine if you could get a 5.7-liter LS1 in everything from a Grand Prix SE to a Cadillac STS and you've pretty much got the picture.

obviously this info is out of date but it'l help you understand the naming method

[SlickHolden]

How i would love the L67 Supercharged Ecotec now.. There are some guys getting 300kw from just a pulley upgrade no intercooler or internal work stock running gear, It had plenty in it holden just didn't play with it.. Some guys using them as @ street drags getting 11's that's very good..

But Ford and Holden have always had a great package for all..

Even if you couldn't afford the high price luxo they both offer a lower priced luxo pack, Like the Berlina and Fairmont.. Great value with great options at a great price.. Same with the LWB models Statesman/Fairlane. Even the Performance chains have a low price entry level with same power output as the premium models..

[Gtrain]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

Ok, so of the 6 pics you posted, the first 3 are VZ and WL model cars, which are based on the old Holden chassis dating back to 1978 VB Commodore which was a modified Opel Senator and are a Statesman, Caprice and SS-Z. The next 3 are VE and WM cars, based on the all-new, Holden developed GM Zeta chassis, and are a Caprice, Omega and Statesman models. Basically, the Statesman and Caprice are long-wheelbase luxury models, with the Caprice being the highest spec cars, with the V8 as standard unless you specify the V6. The Commodores are normal wheelbase, mass-produced cars. The VE Omega is the base model, lowest-spec car. The you have the Berlina, Calais, SV6, SS and SS-V in the VE model cars, which are increasingly higher in spec, with the SV6, SS and SS-V being sport models. The SS-Z was just a special model VZ SS Commodore with Monaro wheels and brakes.

The differences between the VZ/WL and VE/WM cars are huge. The VE is a vastly superior car. You'd buy a Caprice instead of Statesman if you wanted the extra options and could afford it, and get the LWB over the SWB if that's what you wanted.

http://www.holden.com.au/ will answer all, then go to HSV - E series

I dunno i its just me or not, but im from australia work for holden and im confused by the postings above!

The current VE commodore comes out in standard and long wheel base platforms.

The Statesman is a long wheel based (ZETA) luxury car, the Caprice is the full luxury spec statesman.
The commodore is the shorter wheel base (ZETA) passenger car, think G8.


Commodores are as follows
omega (formally Executive)
Berlina
Calais
Calais V
SV6
SS
SS V

and occasionally Holden do limited runs of optioned Omegas for the Australian Market ie Lumina, Equip, SV8, Omega V

i hope this clears up any confusion

Cheers

[faksta]

Just read that Commodore Calais would be imported to Europe... by small parties, but nevertheless... It was said by Opel CEO Hans Demant.

[clutch-monkey]

lol, i'm confused by some of these posts now....
basically:
A) does it have a V8
B) does it have the interior you want
..done

[SlickHolden]

Hey hey,

A what engine do you want..
B What seat you wanna sit in..
C Do you wanna drive fast.
D Do you wanna be safer doing it..
E Depends on your hip pocket.
F Does anyone give a **** what i'm saying.