First Tesla delivered.

[-What-]

When an actual CUSTOMER receives a Tesla...let me know.

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

I thought fusion wasn't possible yet. What's missing from the "equation" that hasn't made fusion possible yet? Control of the reaction?

The problem as I understand is is that the reaction is not yet sustainable for long periods of time, what's called the Q value, which is the index of sustainability... screw it I'm opening wikipedia, I can't remember all this information.

Ok, Q is the fusion energy gain factor, a value of 1 indicates breakeven - the energy of the reactor is such that the reaction will continue on it's own energy. However, this does not include the energy used to confine the reaction - something that involves massive amounts of energy, so to actually provide useful energy, one needs a Q value of much greater than 1. In a theoretically efficient, self-sustaining, high power developing reactor, a Q value of about 22 is required.

ITER, the newest magnetic confinement nuclear fusion reactor will be able to produce a 500MW sustainable reaction for up to 400 seconds at a time, compared to the previous generation JET's 16 MW for less than a second - a dramatic increase to say the least. Goals are for a Q value will be about 5 for a long period of time and up to 10 for short periods of time.

ITER formerly stood for International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, but now holds no acronym at all as thermonuclear was viewed by the public as having a negative connotation.

[gtface]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

Hardly. Unless you were able to create the electricity in a green way, it wouldn't be green at all. Coal fired plants create most of the energy, in the US, at least.

Not that I'm against alternative fuels, but making it an electric car doesn't mean it automatically an environmentally viable alternative.

Also, how would you be able to dispose of all of the batteries when you can't service the car anymore?

Besides, if you wanted the car to be environmental, you wouldn't make it a sports car. The sports car aspect of it makes it more appealing, but that's not how you get more mileage out of it. But I do understand it from a marketing point of view.

Tesla has answers to all of these criticisms. First, a Tesla powered by electricity that is generated from coal still produces less emissions than any production car in the US (including hybrids). Second, Tesla claims that they will recycle all of the batteries for free when they need to be replaced (after 125,000 miles or more). Third, as others have pointed out, this car is still very lightweight. It is significantly heavier than an Elise but lighter than corvettes, most ferarris, etc. It is very quick and a pretty decent performance bargain. Also, driving this car aggressively results in much less efficiency loss than driving a gas-powered car aggressively, so you don't have to feel like you're wasting fuel when you floor the accelerator. There are other advantages as well.

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by gtface

Tesla has answers to all of these criticisms. First, a Tesla powered by electricity that is generated from coal still produces less emissions than any production car in the US (including hybrids). Second, Tesla claims that they will recycle all of the batteries for free when they need to be replaced (after 125,000 miles or more). Third, as others have pointed out, this car is still very lightweight. It is significantly heavier than an Elise but lighter than corvettes, most ferarris, etc. It is very quick and a pretty decent performance bargain. Also, driving this car aggressively results in much less efficiency loss than driving a gas-powered car aggressively, so you don't have to feel like you're wasting fuel when you floor the accelerator. There are other advantages as well.

Alright. Those points do address my concerns. I do have one final criticism though. What's the price of this car? If its way above the price of a fuel thrifty sedan, there really isn't a point to buy it.

[gtface]

Can a fuel-thrifty sedan do 0-60 in 4 seconds? The price is about $100,000. Also, this is more fuel-thrifty than any sedan.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

On top of that the shade the panels offered will mean it woudl be possible to grow crops beneath the collector panels AND water for the system would use electricity to desalinate sea water, use it and then deliver it to the soil once circulated.

Just to nitpick, it would be a big pain to harvest those crops under solar panels.

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

Hardly. Unless you were able to create the electricity in a green way, it wouldn't be green at all. Coal fired plants create most of the energy, in the US, at least.

Not that I'm against alternative fuels, but making it an electric car doesn't mean it automatically an environmentally viable alternative.

Also, how would you be able to dispose of all of the batteries when you can't service the car anymore?

Besides, if you wanted the car to be environmental, you wouldn't make it a sports car. The sports car aspect of it makes it more appealing, but that's not how you get more mileage out of it. But I do understand it from a marketing point of view.

Tesla is claiming economy and emissions equivalent to a petrol car doing 135mpg.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

Just to nitpick, it would be a big pain to harvest those crops under solar panels.

[extreme nitpick]
Depends on the crop
Also, nothing stops the panels being 50ft off the ground
[/extreme nitpick]
Granted, it can't be farmed like the vast plains of Canada/America, but beets woudl be feasible

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

[extreme nitpick]
Depends on the crop
Also, nothing stops the panels being 50ft off the ground
[/extreme nitpick]
Granted, it can't be farmed like the vast plains of Canada/America, but beets woudl be feasible

Fair point.

Wouldn't a downside to doing this 10000 square km solar panel field be that while it could generate enough power for Europe, it would be difficult to send all that power to Europe?

The thing that always gets me is that the Middle Eastern oil states, UAE etc etc, have so much money from oil, they could put a heap of that into developing non-oil dependent energy sources, then continue making money from those technologies when the oil runs out.

[-What-]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

The thing that always gets me is that the Middle Eastern oil states, UAE etc etc, have so much money from oil, they could put a heap of that into developing non-oil dependent energy sources, then continue making money from those technologies when the oil runs out.

When you draft a sure-fire plan for this, let me know...


If I throw a thousand dollars at a pebble, will it talk to me? Can I buy my way into heaven? Hmm....I wonder what else I only need money for. How much do you cost?
-------------------


To the guy that says Tesla has all of the answers, I have a question for you to go and search a Tesla website for....

When will the first CUSTOMER car be delivered? From what I've read, the first 5 or more cars are all going to the higher ups in the company...and get this...the guy the used to be second in command (he left the company) HAS NO IDEA WHEN HE IS GETTING HIS CAR...and to make it even worse....HE'S SECOND ON THE LIST!!!! When he asked his former "homie" at Tesla when he'd be getting his car...(which he "paid for" through "donations" that helped to start the company...i.e...STOLE FROM FOOLS)...he was given the response of....nothing.

Tesla is a big-ass SCAM. THIEVES.

[Kitdy]

Word is Tesla has started the normal production of cars today.

[Matra et Alpine]

UK test drive report. From CAR Online

First Drives



Tesla Roadster CAR review

By Ben Oliver
First drive
19 August 2008 09:44

This story about the Tesla Roadster is different, because after years of hype, anticipation and the almost-inevitable delays in production, CAR Online has finally driven one at length, on British roads and in near-production trim. This is a car burdened by expectation; some created by its billing as the world’s first truly green supercar and the first electric car you can use every day, some created by its astronomical price. Question is, does the Tesla Roadster live up to the hype?

Forget the green stuff for a moment: how does the Tesla Roadster drive?

It’s extraordinary: the Tesla is hugely, comically fast, and somehow manages to feel even faster than its claimed, supercar-standard sub-four second 0-60mph time. The electric motor makes its torque constantly, instantly available, the single gear means you don’t have to change down or wait for kickdown, and the huge thrust is generated with nothing more than a Star-Trek whirr.

The Tesla eventually runs out of steam – or whatever it is electric cars run out of – at around 125mph, but it will still generate a solid shove in the back at 90mph. It's pretty spell-binding stuff...




And the Tesla's handling?

Not as good as the Lotus Elise it’s based on, if we're being honest. The Tesla is set up with no toe-in or wheel camber for maximum efficiency and therefore maximum range, The standard cars we drove had less steering feel than an Elise and more understeer, which also helps to counteract the desire of 450kg of battery mounted in the middle to turn into a spinning top if you close the throttle mid-bend.

Customers are likely to be able to specify suspension optimised for handling, but the Roadster’s responses will still be revelatory to anyone used to the overweight, anaesthetised rubbish most of us have to put up with.

So the Roadster's not quite as good as an Elise. That's no surprise!

The brakes require a solid shove to really engage, but the generators on the wheels that recapture energy slow the car so noticeably when you come off the throttle that the brakes often aren’t necessary.

But don’t you miss the sound of an engine?
Frankly, no. The quiet constantly reminds you how special the car you’re driving is, and how green it is. Pedestrians gape and point as it whirrs past, swelling your ego yet further. The lack of noise just makes the acceleration even more absurd, and when you’re just cruising you have a car with a powertrain infinitely more refined than a Rolls-Royce.

The Tesla’s primary ride is as composed and fluent as an Elise's, but the lack of induction and exhaust noise draws your attention to its tendency to crash through bigger potholes. A shame.

So what about the Tesla Roadster's inevitable downsides?

There are plenty. The Tesla Roadster will cost £92,000 when it goes on sale in the UK in May 2009. Normal value judgments need to be put to one side here; the Tesla will be a purely discretionary purchase by people who like the idea of it, and for whom the price is spare change.

Don’t be jealous; they’re subsidising the development of technology that will soon appear in cars we can afford, like Tesla’s Model S hatchback due in 2010.

The Roadster's claimed range of 227 miles is impressive and likely to improve before the first cars arrive in Europe, but you still need an eight-hour charge to get it, even if you install a 32-amp power supply at home or the office. And the batteries will need to be replaced after four or five years at a cost of around £12,000, although that is likely to come down and the old ones can be recycled.

Not to mention the age-old conundrum of electric cars: generating electricity still produces pollution, albeit less, just elsewhere.
Verdict

Forget the price, the limitations and the seeming irrelevance of a car that will sell in tiny numbers to the very wealthy. The Tesla Roadster is probably the most significant car we’ll drive all year, because for the first time here’s an electric car with a usable range and genuinely thrilling dynamics being offered as a commercial proposition, rather than a loss-making PR exercise.

Electric cars have a long way to go before they’re relevant to the rest of us, but the Tesla Roadster shows they’re travelling fast in that direction

Statistics

How much?£92,000On sale in the UK:May 2009Engine:248bhp, 275lb ft AC electric motorTransmission:Single speedPerformance:0-60mph 3.9sec, 125mph, 0g/km CO2How heavy / made of?1222kgHow big (length/width/height in mm)?3947/1722/1127

CAR's rating

Handling

Performance

Usability

Feelgood factor

Readers' rating

[gtface]

Tesla has delivered around 15 cars so far. It's not great progress, but they're still working out the kinks in production and are finishing up the new transmission.

[Dino Scuderia]

Excerpt:



Electric carmaker Tesla plans big round of layoffs
The electric carmaker also plans to ramp up production of its high-end Roadster.
By Ken Bensinger
October 25, 2008

Struggling to raise money amid the financial crisis, electric carmaker Telsa Motors Inc. will eliminate nearly a quarter of its workforce in a bid for profitability.

Chairman and Chief Executive Elon Musk said Friday that Tesla would cut as many as 87 staff and full-time contract workers, or 24% of the 363-person total. The company also will attempt to raise $25 million, rather than the $100 million it had been seeking.

Last week, the Santa Rosa-based start-up said it would delay production of its electric sedan, close two offices, increase production of its $109,000 Roadster and lay off an unspecified number of employees.

Over the last week, affected workers were notified, although the exact number of jobs to be lost is not certain because it remains unclear how many employees in its Rochester Hills, Mich., engineering office will accept offers to relocate to the Bay Area.

Electric carmaker Tesla plans big round of layoffs - Los Angeles Times

[NSXType-R]

Isn't Tesla about to go out of business?

(Sorry, I didn't read the article.)

So much for a mass produced electric car. Wonder if the Volt will be a better car.

They had a 4 door sedan in the works, correct?

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

They had a 4 door sedan in the works, correct?

Yes they do.