Are V8 Supercars better than the old ATCC ?

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

sponsorships has also grown by a huge margin. V8 supercar is allot more stable than the old ATCC especially on terms of teams competing week in and week out.

So thats why Castrol ditched perkins and has a half sponsorship in fpv why both ford and holden have serverly cut back their funding,better elctrical left a winning thing in 888 and didnt sign on with another team....nah your just talking through your spchincter as usual.

[fpv_gtho]

Betta Electrical went into recievership (just like Westpoint/DJR), unlikely to be caused from a few million $$ a year in V8 Supercar racing between 888 a Howard Racing. 888 infact reportedly recieve a record $10m a year from replacement sponser Vodafone. Holden and Ford are also cutting back on support due to hardships in their primary business. Neither of those wouldve been influenced by any stability or instability from the V8's commercial side.

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

Betta Electrical went into recievership (just like Westpoint/DJR), unlikely to be caused from a few million $$ a year in V8 Supercar racing between 888 a Howard Racing. 888 infact reportedly recieve a record $10m a year from replacement sponser Vodafone. Holden and Ford are also cutting back on support due to hardships in their primary business. Neither of those wouldve been influenced by any stability or instability from the V8's commercial side.

I beg to differ if it was really worth it they would of kept marketing...so a race dedicated to v8 powerd large cars in todays market just doesnt make sense.

And ill quote neil crompton "If an advertiser of that size can leave the catigory might not be as healthy as we have previously thought" and while we are seeing record money being spent we also have teams in more and more debt australia doesnt have a market for this kind of racing and its a victum of its own sucsess.

We have a big market but even if we had every aussie watching we would still have less then a 1/4 of germanys population.

[charged]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

So thats why Castrol ditched perkins and has a half sponsorship in fpv why both ford and holden have serverly cut back their funding,better elctrical left a winning thing in 888 and didnt sign on with another team....nah your just talking through your spchincter as usual.

dead right there Falc..... The sponsor dollars are staring to dry up, and the series is starting to get stale. The original group C and A ATCC championship has the crowds and very little in the way of marketing. Look at the AFL/NRL they werent as popular in the 80/90s as they are now. Marketing has had a huge influence on the V8 supercars... Any sport in Australia really.


The beauty of the old cars was they had their own strengths and weaknesses, the Sierras were jets at the start of the race but as the race went on the 650hp fried the tyres and the M3 then had an advantage, same
as the GTRs great at the start but when the tyres went off the Commodes and M3 were all over them.. Ive watched the footage a fair bit latley and IMHO the racing is better.... Maybe I watched the footage with rose coloured glasses

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by charged

dead right there Falc..... The sponsor dollars are staring to dry up, and the series is starting to get stale. The original group C and A ATCC championship has the crowds and very little in the way of marketing. Look at the AFL/NRL they werent as popular in the 80/90s as they are now. Marketing has had a huge influence on the V8 supercars... Any sport in Australia really.


The beauty of the old cars was they had their own strengths and weaknesses, the Sierras were jets at the start of the race but as the race went on the 650hp fried the tyres and the M3 then had an advantage, same
as the GTRs great at the start but when the tyres went off the Commodes and M3 were all over them.. Ive watched the footage a fair bit latley and IMHO the racing is better.... Maybe I watched the footage with rose coloured glasses

Thats right a ford badge on your group c falcon got you 30 sparkplugs and an oil filter unless your name was Jhonson or Moffat.

But to further my last rebuttle to fpv look at nrl vs superleauge starting wage here would be 50-100k a year and in superleauge its near double so we loose our boys to the english and french (or union) and when we talk of raising the salery cap their crys of pooer clubs running out of money.....


Well that just it there was real racing nowdays an evo and a wrx vs a Clubspot and a GT or F6 would be good racing wether its winton or bathurst!

[charged]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Thats right a ford badge on your group c falcon got you 30 sparkplugs and an oil filter unless your name was Jhonson or Moffat.

But to further my last rebuttle to fpv look at nrl vs superleauge starting wage here would be 50-100k a year and in superleauge its near double so we loose our boys to the english and french (or union) and when we talk of raising the salery cap their crys of pooer clubs running out of money.....


Well that just it there was real racing nowdays an evo and a wrx vs a Clubspot and a GT or F6 would be good racing wether its winton or bathurst!

Funny you mention that in the catergory I race in we are changing the rules to get more LM cars in our class. We look like we will be going to a boost limit instead of a restrictor in the turbo and increasing the size limit of V8s to 7 litres so more commodes , falcons rexs and evos run.

The Early model cars are normally faster then a LM car due to the inherent weight of a a Falcon XR6t, Commodore, Rex and Evo

The problem in our class with the restrictor is they limit HP at high revs so if you have say a 4 litre xr6t the restrictor will kill the HP party at about 4 grand. The smaller the engine the less air it needs so a 2litre turbo will make hp to 6 grand then trail off, The way we overcome this is with boost and plenty of it to produce stupid amounts of gearbox,diff, driveshaft destroying torque... with the boost limit the hp will be the same round the 400hp mark but over a wider rev range and less torque, so the drivetrain wont need PPG , Holinger close ratio gersets, special diffs etc.

The Bradster services GTR nissan cleaned up in IP but the guy spent over 200grand in 1 year acheiving this. His GTR was making over 800ft/lbs of torque due to him running high 30 psi of boost, he went through a PPG box, driveshafts every meeting, if he had a boost limit he would have a wider spread of power and not need custom close ratio ger sets, and a huge beefy drivetrain.... If the rules go through there should be some nice LM IP cars hitting the track

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by charged

Funny you mention that in the catergory I race in we are changing the rules to get more LM cars in our class. We look like we will be going to a boost limit instead of a restrictor in the turbo and increasing the size limit of V8s to 7 litres so more commodes , falcons rexs and evos run.

The Early model cars are normally faster then a LM car due to the inherent weight of a a Falcon XR6t, Commodore, Rex and Evo

The problem in our class with the restrictor is they limit HP at high revs so if you have say a 4 litre xr6t the restrictor will kill the HP party at about 4 grand. The smaller the engine the less air it needs so a 2litre turbo will make hp to 6 grand then trail off, The way we overcome this is with boost and plenty of it to produce stupid amounts of gearbox,diff, driveshaft destroying torque... with the boost limit the hp will be the same round the 400hp mark but over a wider rev range and less torque, so the drivetrain wont need PPG , Holinger close ratio gersets, special diffs etc.

The Bradster services GTR nissan cleaned up in IP but the guy spent over 200grand in 1 year acheiving this. His GTR was making over 800ft/lbs of torque due to him running high 30 psi of boost, he went through a PPG box, driveshafts every meeting, if he had a boost limit he would have a wider spread of power and not need custom close ratio ger sets, and a huge beefy drivetrain.... If the rules go through there should be some nice LM IP cars hitting the track

Cubic dollars are winners in racing hence why i stopped wanting to race...sure i could have fun but i would of gone broke and had nothing to show for it best off waiting untill i have a more disposable income.

Also one thing worth mentioning is nearly everone is cheating in racing! a family friend of ours whos in the historics is running a stroker in his car and he still cant make any ground on most of the top 10 cars!

But still thats a stupid ammount to spend could of bought an ex konica series car and raced in the group A/early v8 supercar series for that kind of dollars.

[SlickHolden]

It's a typical world things happening, All business are cutting back, Staff output etc.. Most are owned by parent company's overseas, And they are in dire straits, So the pressure all below them, Which is why most company's are struggling here and overseas.

Example, My football club lost it's major sponsor, This is there last year been with us for about 5-6 years, As they have to cut back and asses there budgets, Just like us, To much finical pressure all round the world right now.

[charged]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Cubic dollars are winners in racing hence why i stopped wanting to race...sure i could have fun but i would of gone broke and had nothing to show for it best off waiting untill i have a more disposable income.

Also one thing worth mentioning is nearly everone is cheating in racing! a family friend of ours whos in the historics is running a stroker in his car and he still cant make any ground on most of the top 10 cars!

But still thats a stupid ammount to spend could of bought an ex konica series car and raced in the group A/early v8 supercar series for that kind of dollars.

yeah there are a few cheaters out ther for sure, we have a guy that just imported a Honds Civic from the malaysian supertouring series..... its a bloody supertourer, rosejointed suspension, rollcage which connects the strut towers and rear strut towers, and its logged as a u1600 car but has a 1820cc engine WTF.

The Bradster GTR , Jeff the owner not the driver .... he pays his drivers wanted to prove tha a GTR could dominate IP, it did that, broke lap records, won the 2007 national championship.... I cant understand spending all that money and not getting out on the track and doing skids The car in now running in the Superlap series and going over to japan in December to superlap over there..... It now makes over 670hp and runs slicks, when it runs in sports sedan class

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by charged

yeah there are a few cheaters out ther for sure, we have a guy that just imported a Honds Civic from the malaysian supertouring series..... its a bloody supertourer, rosejointed suspension, rollcage which connects the strut towers and rear strut towers, and its logged as a u1600 car but has a 1820cc engine WTF.

The Bradster GTR , Jeff the owner not the driver .... he pays his drivers wanted to prove tha a GTR could dominate IP, it did that, broke lap records, won the 2007 national championship.... I cant understand spending all that money and not getting out on the track and doing skids The car in now running in the Superlap series and going over to japan in December to superlap over there..... It now makes over 670hp and runs slicks, when it runs in sports sedan class

LMAO not what you know but who...but thats really pushing it!

Our mate said he used every trick he can think of and can afford but the rest of the top 10 in the historics have more money then he does so they get pretty damn exotic in whats supposed to be a simple clean cut catigory (yeah right) hes very certian paul stubber and brad tilley are cheating ALOT! they just dont have advantage the others are using, they can pull car lengths on short striaghts!

I agree full dude 200k and didnt do his own drining and lol with that much money to spend he should get a ringer in for the trip to japan i hear glenn setons not very busy nowdays lol.

[charged]

The driver for the Bradster GTR is Dave Loftus and he can steer, he does it for a job for murcotts and does high performance drive days for Porsche , Ferrari, BMW and Mercedes....... He has a good life

[Falcon500]

Brandster Services Motorsport

Seems loftus turns spanners during the week but hell what a weekend he has! ahh the joys that could of been hadif i had either more tallent or money (or both in copious ammounts)

[charged]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Brandster Services Motorsport

Seems loftus turns spanners during the week but hell what a weekend he has! ahh the joys that could of been hadif i had either more tallent or money (or both in copious ammounts)

yeah sorry mate I was mixing up Loftus with Scotty Bucton... Scotty does it full time nearly and runs his riverwood motorsports business. Ive spoken to Dave a bit about my 20v and he freely gives imformation which can be rare in IP (secret squirrel business). He actually built my brothers KE20 and won numerous state and national titles with it in the 90s and his best mate built mine at the same time. So maybe thats why he is nice... he does a few high performance drive days because he was telling me he helps out John Boston to give him a hand when he is overbooked.

Wished I was like the also mate... would be a good life