Why ?

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by spi-ti-tout

And, even if you understand the importance of a nav, which I do now, what difference does it make if you're a driver? Going on and handling the wheel has got to be on the other side when compared with reading notes abd mapes.

firstly they wont let you enter the rally

secondly the co-driver tells the driver where to go, like some say which side of the road to be on for the corner, they tell you the speed / gear etc

there needed

[spi-ti-tout]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Even on the Scottish forests you'll get up to over 100mph.

You're giving special preferences to the Scottish forest aren't you?
Are they something like the Finnish forests? With clear gravel and trees often surrounding you and things like that.

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Approaching a blind corner over a crest with the nav screaming flat out takes balls
On clear straights in the 100 Lakes they got up to 130mph - on unmade forest tracks !!!!
Cornering speeds vary according to the zeverity of the corner obviosuly but going round a corner over 70mph with no visbility beyond the apex is common

Woah......130
Nice stuff. Didn't know all this
Thanks

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

2 things, it enables the driver and co-driver to work together to produce the best pace notes and to undestand the problems if things aren't goign smoothly. The same is true for every good nav, they HAVE to have tried driving at some time to grasp the other side.

I used to ponder about navs (when I had not much access to rally except from talking to a friend, who didn't know much about it anyway) and came to think navs were only navs because they hadn't reached the driving stage yet basing it on the thought "Who doesn't want the thrill of driving?". Looks like I was going the opposite way

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

If the driver can't set the car up for the corner FOLLOWING this one then they're nto going fast enough
Equally if the second corner is close to and tighter than the first corner than it's actually quicker to enter the first corner SLOWER.
Some drivers have the nav call 3-4 corners ahead.
A good driver then builds a "nap" in their mind of what the road "looks like" and drive through them to the quickest.

A bit muddling but all good. I guess the driver has to have to good imagination and a good sense of humour after all of that

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Yep, rallying is a much harder car driving competition than every other

But its also the most fun. All that power, control, adrenaline, speed, drift, hairpins, straights, 90's, 180's, and the feel, the exitement the passion and the soul of rallying distinguish it from any other

Rally Rocks!!
Wouldn't you agree?

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by spi-ti-tout

You're giving special preferences to the Scottish forest aren't you?

That's the experience and the rest of Britain.
Can only say about Finnish, Swedish, French Italian from the coverage adn second hand !!

Are they something like the Finnish forests? With clear gravel and trees often surrounding you and things like that.

Finnish surfaces are a little smoother than SCottish and less muddier than Welsh and most British. Scottish forest tracks have a lot of hard rock/gravel and can be quite large with smaller infill. So it can get VERY rough.
Finnish looks more smaller rocks and 'dustier'.

Woah......130

Sadly a nav doesnt' have the option and has to keep looking. Sometimes you dont' want to - coz you're not in control

I used to ponder about navs (when I had not much access to rally except from talking to a friend, who didn't know much about it anyway) and came to think navs were only navs because they hadn't reached the driving stage yet basing it on the thought "Who doesn't want the thrill of driving?". Looks like I was going the opposite way

Skill for sure comes into it.
A lesson I learned quite early on with the Escort was I didn't have the outright skill and speed to be in the top 10 as a driver - lack of experience, I made this call when I was 17 ( shoudl have waited longer )
BUT moeny also has a large part and a lot of drivers switch to nav as they can't fund their own car. THEN they find they are bloody good navs and stick with it as "career".
Many do both at clubman level.

Rally Rocks!!
Wouldn't you agree?

What -- there is another form of motorsport ? where ??

[spi-ti-tout]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

That's the experience and the rest of Britain.
Can only say about Finnish, Swedish, French Italian from the coverage adn second hand !!
Finnish surfaces are a little smoother than SCottish and less muddier than Welsh and most British. Scottish forest tracks have a lot of hard rock/gravel and can be quite large with smaller infill. So it can get VERY rough.
Finnish looks more smaller rocks and 'dustier'.

The deserts of UAE are real killers. A true test of keeping your car in control in some of the most slippery (and most of the times deep!!) terrain in the world. A shame they never have WRC here. It would be an ideal place, with lots of sand, lots of money and lots of fans

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Skill for sure comes into it.
A lesson I learned quite early on with the Escort was I didn't have the outright skill and speed to be in the top 10 as a driver - lack of experience, I made this call when I was 17 ( shoudl have waited longer )
BUT moeny also has a large part and a lot of drivers switch to nav as they can't fund their own car. THEN they find they are bloody good navs and stick with it as "career".
Many do both at clubman level.

Atleast you got to rally
Just as a side note, how much are WRC Navs paid considering how much the driver is paid?

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

What -- there is another form of motorsport ? where ??

Other forms of 'wannabe' motorsport sure. But nothing just like or close to rally

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by spi-ti-tout

The deserts of UAE are real killers. A true test of keeping your car in control in some of the most slippery (and most of the times deep!!) terrain in the world. A shame they never have WRC here. It would be an ideal place, with lots of sand, lots of money and lots of fans

We see the rally series over here sometimes.
Not the same, get it wrong in most of the desert stages and you get stuck.
Get it wrong in a forest and you bounce off the trees - IF YOU'RE LUCKY
The safari rallies are another thing though adn I woudl really liek the East African to be returned to the WRC

Just as a side note, how much are WRC Navs paid considering how much the driver is paid?

The WRC approach that it is the DRIVER that matters - note the co-driver name isnt' the same size of character or location as the driver anymore - and so the co-driver salary dropped.

Moya split from Sainz when he moved to Citroen because he was only going to be paid HALF of what he got whilst the pair were at Ford.

So it's less now than it used to be

Still a LOT though.

But at the bottom of the ladder, a nav woudl normally be expected to pay their way

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

But at the bottom of the ladder, a nav woudl normally be expected to pay their way

entery fee's, race suit, helmet, overnight place to stay in my case ;p

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Mustang

entery fee's, race suit, helmet, overnight place to stay in my case ;p

The plus is your costs are capped.

A driver/owner risks writing off the car each time - especially if they've a dodgy nav

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

The plus is your costs are capped.

A driver/owner risks writing off the car each time - especially if they've a dodgy nav

you mean kinda like me with a nav who has as much experience at co-driving as i do at sky diving lol

and more fool me i was aiming for Grizedale as my firs rally

hmn.. dont think that a national forest is quite the place to start, maybee 3 sisters first or even weeton

[spi-ti-tout]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

We see the rally series over here sometimes.

Which country, UAE? Do you ever watch the Desert Extreme Rally Challenge?

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Not the same, get it wrong in most of the desert stages and you get stuck.
Get it wrong in a forest and you bounce off the trees - IF YOU'RE LUCKY

My idea is the real test lies in two things, not getting yourself into a mess and getting out of it once you're there. Compared to Acropolis, it must be almost the same. Too many tyres going down in Acropolis. And, maybe the drivers might appreciate a change of scenery

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

The safari rallies are another thing though adn I woudl really liek the East African to be returned to the WRC

Have to agree there. Kenya is an absolutely beautiful place with all its calm scenery (not just talking as a kenyan, but generally). Why did the FIA pull it out of the map?

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

The WRC approach that it is the DRIVER that matters - note the co-driver name isnt' the same size of character or location as the driver anymore - and so the co-driver salary dropped.
Moya split from Sainz when he moved to Citroen because he was only going to be paid HALF of what he got whilst the pair were at Ford.
So it's less now than it used to be
Still a LOT though.
But at the bottom of the ladder, a nav woudl normally be expected to pay their way

It was just what was on my mind lately. Why? The windows looked better with both the names and its appreciation to the true team effort. It's not fair atall . I bet WRC wouldn't be as enjoyable if they weren't any navs because the drivers would be crashing everytime.

Maybe all fans of WRC can protest to get navs their honourable names on the windows back

[Matra et Alpine]

[quote=spi-ti-tout]Which country, UAE? Do you ever watch the Desert Extreme Rally Challenge?[/QUOTE[
Middle East Rally Championship.
Bin Sulayem always had some good kit and drove the terrain well.

Have to agree there. Kenya is an absolutely beautiful place with all its calm scenery (not just talking as a kenyan, but generally). Why did the FIA pull it out of the map?

The WRC ahnged their requriemnets for rallies to be aruond a centre and to have reduced stage duration - all in the name of "safety' theou clealry the first is abot the press and hospitality . So the East African coudlnt' fit into their mould. Neither coudl the British rally which is why it is now a poor copy of it's once great self - 3 days long NAD night stages !!

Maybe all fans of WRC can protest to get navs their honourable names on the windows back

SOME teams have continued to put the co-drivers name on the bodywork below the window

[spi-ti-tout]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Middle East Rally Championship.
Bin Sulayem always had some good kit and drove the terrain well.

Yeah. I was too small to understand what rally really was when he was doing his stuff and so I missed most of it. But I do have some good stuff. I read an article once when he had just retired in the local magazine. A few quotes:

"Ford is the only one really serious about rally. No one else really cares"

"My back was semi-paralysed and my body was aching. Somehow I kept on going on and cried when I won the rally"

He probably only said the first one because he was using a focus. But I can't really say.

He was a good driver though. I guessed he was getting old but still had that rally passion in him, so he organized the Desert Extreme Rally Challenge.

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

The WRC ahnged their requriemnets for rallies to be aruond a centre and to have reduced stage duration - all in the name of "safety' theou clealry the first is abot the press and hospitality . So the East African coudlnt' fit into their mould. Neither coudl the British rally which is why it is now a poor copy of it's once great self - 3 days long NAD night stages !!

Woah...3 days long!!!
That's incredible. If they wanted though, I expect they coud shorten stages such as these(?). They could have it in one place only instead of going round the whole country.

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

SOME teams have continued to put the co-drivers name on the bodywork below the window

Still isn't the same though.
But atleast its there
I still say we should protest

[Mustang]

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[spi-ti-tout]

Does this mean someones buying me a ticket??

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by spi-ti-tout

Does this mean someones buying me a ticket??

ifd you wanna pay me back for it when you get here

[spi-ti-tout]

Originally Posted by Mustang

ifd you wanna pay me back for it when you get here

If you'll gimme a job