Subaru Legacy (Mk5)

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

We can get a 2 for one bonus - buy GM, get Chrysler free!



But I actually want to build cars...

Acapulco would be cheaper, and no unions.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

Acapulco would be cheaper, and no unions.

Either that...

...or buy De Tomaso factory, pretend we're making cars, ask for big bailout.

Then do whatever we fancy.

PS I think we're too off-topic now.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Either that...

...or buy De Tomaso factory, pretend we're making cars, ask for big bailout.

Then do whatever we fancy.

PS I think we're too off-topic now.

yes, we are definitely too off topic, and that' the point with the new Legacy.
it doesn't raise a discussion.
I think even the old one had a similar problem, but it was still made with that "old school" touch that was fair enough for us enthusiasts.
This, together with the new Subaru's lineup, seems to be another average Toyota.
oh yeah, it still has the 4wd system and a boxer engine...and so, what?
Why should I choose one of these?
It should be a hell of a bargain, and a rock solid car. But still it would be a bit of a too rational decision.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

yes, we are definitely too off topic, and that' the point with the new Legacy.
it doesn't raise a discussion.
I think even the old one had a similar problem, but it was still made with that "old school" touch that was fair enough for us enthusiasts.
This, together with the new Subaru's lineup, seems to be another average Toyota.
oh yeah, it still has the 4wd system and a boxer engine...and so, what?
Why should I choose one of these?
It should be a hell of a bargain, and a rock solid car. But still it would be a bit of a too rational decision.

Well, I don't like they styling and that's probably enough to put me off. But I can definitely see the point of buying this car from an engineering point of view. It stays true to its principles and that's a rare thing these days.

However I do agree that the styling has become too mainstream. The old one was much better, a bit sport but subtle and with the Subaru-trademark frameless doors.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Well, I don't like they styling and that's probably enough to put me off. But I can definitely see the point of buying this car from an engineering point of view. It stays true to its principles and that's a rare thing these days.

However I do agree that the styling has become too mainstream. The old one was much better, a bit sport but subtle and with the Subaru-trademark frameless doors.

weell, as you said, you would buy it because it has some (not all though) peculiar things that every Subaru has. But those aren't exclusive or ground braking. So it would be just for the sake of its tradition, which it's diluted but still a better argument than a simple "I don't like it", even if I recognize the look of a car is a big factor in our choices.

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

a more relaxed drive, with a softer curve of torque and a comfier power release.
Like for a Mercedes-Benz S600 and an S63, with similar figures but different set-ups.

Originally Posted by Ferrer

And more smoothness too.

Good points, but isn't the flat 6 more expensive? If I'm going to pay more, I better get more for my money!

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

Good points, but isn't the flat 6 more expensive? If I'm going to pay more, I better get more for my money!

There's so much more to a car than performance.

[Kitdy]

I'm a bit disappointed not just because the car is not meh/bad looking, but that the 3.6L flat-6 doesn't put out better numbers. Yes Ferrer, hate me for being obsessed with performance, (I'm not as much anymore) but 256 hp is 6 hp more only than the outgoing 3.0L. Sure the torque curve will be better and all and this isn't exactly a sporty car but I think if they took it up 25-50 more hp and kept it on premium gas the boxer 6 woulda been a real heavyweight amongst naturally aspirated 6 cylinders and the R (doesn't R indicate performance?) would have numbers comparable to a G37 or 335i or whatever (I'm mainly thinking G37.) Why make a turbo with 265 hp that's kitted to dance (is it on regular gas too?) and then have an extra 1.1L of displacement in what I assume is a performance model and yet have lower power? Or are they going more for comfort from the 6? Why not jack up the 6 and have a sporty flat-6 and have a turbo 4 as intermediary between base and performance? That's what I'd like to have seen (wrapped in last generation looks, mind you). I think the main issue is I see things differently than they do.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

I'm a bit disappointed not just because the car is not meh/bad looking, but that the 3.6L flat-6 doesn't put out better numbers. Yes Ferrer, hate me for being obsessed with performance, (I'm not as much anymore) but 256 hp is 6 hp more only than the outgoing 3.0L. Sure the torque curve will be better and all and this isn't exactly a sporty car but I think if they took it up 25-50 more hp and kept it on premium gas the boxer 6 woulda been a real heavyweight amongst naturally aspirated 6 cylinders and the R (doesn't R indicate performance?) would have numbers comparable to a G37 or 335i or whatever (I'm mainly thinking G37.) Why make a turbo with 265 hp that's kitted to dance (is it on regular gas too?) and then have an extra 1.1L of displacement in what I assume is a performance model and yet have lower power? Or are they going more for comfort from the 6? Why not jack up the 6 and have a sporty flat-6 and have a turbo 4 as intermediary between base and performance? That's what I'd like to have seen (wrapped in last generation looks, mind you). I think the main issue is I see things differently than they do.

apart from the two models being quite different, as if they were a Mercedes S600 and an S63 (again), using a turbocharged engine allows you for much more possibilities in tuning the engine. By tuning I don't mean obtaining more power, but perhaps also maintaining the same power and reducing the emissions.
So while whit a turbo it's easier to so, and a natural aspirated one you have to deal with an almost fixed parameter, the air pressure (simplifying), which is quite important.
That's why the 6 cylinder seems to be less performing and evolved.

On the other hand, since Subaru always adopted turbocharged engine for its more spory applications, using a turbo engine even for its relaxed flagship model would give customers the idea that car isn't the comfortable and smooth as Subaru is rpetending, therefore loosing some sale figures.
my two Italian cents.

[Ferrer]

I think it also has something to do with the fact that the old 3 litre needed premium fuel and the 3.6 litre can use regular.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I'm looking at this, then looking at my parents 3rd Generation, and asking WTF went wrong.

The answer? Subaru Lost their subtlety and their individuality. Why would I buy this over a Camry now?

[kingofthering]

Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows

The answer? Subaru Lost their subtlety and their individuality. Why would I buy this over a Camry now?

Well...it does have a touch of sportiness that the Camry lacks. That and a turbocharged engine.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Perhaps, but that doesn't really reasonate with families looking for safety, efficiency and low servicing costs (Something which a Turbo can have negative connotations with....)

And plus, I think the Camry looks nice

[f6fhellcat13]

Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows

I'm looking at this, then looking at my parents 3rd Generation, and asking WTF went wrong.

The answer? Subaru Lost their subtlety and their individuality. Why would I buy this over a Camry now?

It's the plight of the modern and interesting car.
Its sales never match those of the class leader, so the marketing execs step in and say, "Copy that." The car loses its individuality and its sales still do not match the Camries of the world because the class leader is always going to have the recognition. Than you just have another vanilla car that is progressively neutered more and more until those same marketing execs spot its flagging sales and do the old 9mm-to-the-back-of-the-head trick.

[cmcpokey]

Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows

The answer? Subaru Lost their subtlety and their individuality. Why would I buy this over a Camry now?

Just say no. Firends don't let friends drive Camrys. No matter how good a Camry might be, and how bad the Legacy could be, it would still be selling yourself way short to drive the toyota.