James Bond back with Aston Martin for ‘CASINO ROYALE’

[The_Canuck]

Originally Posted by Clivey

the Ford GT has a better interior by far...

the aston however dosent leak water in the rain and have a massive blindspot.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Originally Posted by Clivey

And the V600 was built to a higher standrard than the Vanquish. It doesn't really matter where it was made or who by, Aston HAS taken a step backwards.

If they hadn't taken that step, Aston Martin would not be making cars now. They'd be another faded memory from a time when Britain was the most powerful empire on the planet.

It's survival of the fittest, and metaphorically, Aston Martin were cured of lung cancer by Ford. You may not like their methods at the moment, but this can change- think what Ford did for the Range Rover, and then think what they did for the Discovery.

They're concentrating on LR at the moment. Give them time.

They'd always have different engines- I cannot see the 2.7 TDi being adopted in a "baby Aston budget car", that's for sure. The same goes for that spine-tingling V8 in the Vantage- it's a thing of sheer raucous power, not built for yanking a 2.7 tonne off-roader through the mud with it's not-very-amazing torque figure.

[Clivey]

Originally Posted by Sauc3

How is making a profit and making cars that people lust after, cars that have a reputation for being some of the most comfortable cars and best GTs, cars that are arguably the best looking modern cars, cars which are stealing sales from it's rivals, a step backwards?

I was talking about interior quality, I didn't mention or mean anything else with regards to the "backwards" comment. However, I do think that now Aston has proved it will make a profit etc. Ford should let them at least design new cars completely from scratch. There are only a few minor things I'd change about the looks of the new cars (Vanquish and DB9) but I'm especially picky when it comes to exterior design (that's what I wanted to do a few years ago). The Vantage though looks slightly "cutesy" and cartoon-like compared to the others, I think it needs to LOOK longer and have a slightly more pointy nose. (It's very rounded for an Aston at present)

Originally Posted by The_Canuck

the aston however dosent leak water in the rain and have a massive blindspot.

A Ford build quality problem which shouldn't be allowed to find its way into an AM. That's not the quality of the interior as far as the dash, doorcards, seats etc. go (in the GT) but a problem with the seals around the doors / windows.

[Cyco]

Originally Posted by Clivey

Have you ANY evidence WHATSOEVER that I am a poncy small minded poser?

Every post you make regarding Astons?

Originally Posted by Clivey

You give the impression you want to be doing both of these.

What, buy a Aston that is well tested and reliable?

Yes, well not want to, I have.

Originally Posted by Clivey

I have also been inside an F50 and as I've already stated, the Fiat parts werent as blatantly obvious as the Ford crap in the Vanquish

Have you ever been in a Fiat, or Alfa? Doesnt sound like you have spent much time there to tell

Originally Posted by Clivey

One of the main reasons it didn't sell is that it was so performance orientated that emissions were horrendous, and it was subsiquently banned in many countries. That doesn't mean it was a bad car (in that sense of the word at least). TVR Tuscans arent road legal in the US, do you think they're bad cars? Aston was already in trouble, the V600 didn't change that.

Some Aston history for you:

The previous V8 Vantage was being built at NP and there was new emission regs coming in in Europe. The 5.3l V8 in the V8V was not going to pass these regs, having first been designed and used many years previously. Aston took the step to develop an entirely new car, the Vanquish. This left Aston with a problem - a large pile of V8V bodies and engines that would not be sold due to the new model. So they bolted on 2 superchargers and created the limited edition V600

Originally Posted by Clivey

I admit there may be some confusion here, I didn't mean the piece you sit on but the plastic that surrounds the bottom of the seat. The seat movement controls are all Ford if you care to take a look.

This piece around the bottom of the seat looks a lot like leather to me on a Vanq, didn't realise a Mondeo was so well speced.

Originally Posted by Clivey

Not the whole steering column, we were talking in relation to switchgear, I meant the plastic surround.

That again in a Vanq looks remarkably similar to leather....

Originally Posted by Clivey

You must realise that this practice by any manufacturer of stuffing an expensive (especially a luxury or GT car) car full of inferior parts to save money only costs and fool the people who buy it, is not good. Once they can get away with it, it'll get worse.

Do you realise this has been going on ever since mass production started?

Do you also realise that the manufactures don't actually make most of the switch gear and the like, they just assemble it?

Originally Posted by Clivey

As I have said, the Aston Martin badge and exterior design is enough to sell one of these cars on its own, to your average poser it doesn't matter whether it's any good in Grand Tourer terms.

If they were anywhere near as bad as you make out they would not have the current 2 year waiting list.

Originally Posted by Clivey

I AM relaxed lol, watching "Gone In 60 Seconds"

I can understand why you are so uptight then, the acting in that is woeful

Originally Posted by Clivey

Eventually I can see Astons using Jag engines that are also shared with Land Rover...that sort of thing wouldn't be good.

Initally the AMV8 was due to share the Jag/Range Rover SC V8, but Ford decided to let Aston build their own.

Originally Posted by Clivey

for a more "British" effect, a McLaren F1...?

Is there an elegant way to exit a McLaren F1, especially in a Tux?

Originally Posted by IWantANAudiRS6

The last Aston Martin handbuilt at Newport Pagnell was the Vantage V600.

Robots cannot tell the difference between what they are making. They make it to the same standard.

The Vanq is still being built at NP. Currently the Gaydon facility is at full capacity, so it would either need to expand, or the DBS/Rapide will be back at NP.

The only robot in Gaydon is the glue aplicator.

Originally Posted by Clivey

the V600 was built to a higher standrard than the Vanquish.

The V600 was built by the same people in the same place as the Vanq, both under Ford ownership, so why would there be a quality difference> How do you know there is a quality difference?

Originally Posted by Clivey

Ford should let them at least design new cars completely from scratch.

The Exterior was designed by Mr Fisker, the Chassis is the VH platform. Both are (currently) only used by Aston. What parts are Ford not letting them design?

Originally Posted by Clivey

The Vantage though looks slightly "cutesy" and cartoon-like compared to the others, I think it needs to LOOK longer

It looks short because it is, and its ment to.

[my porsche]

Originally Posted by The_Canuck

the aston however dosent leak water in the rain

i can vouch that as true


and about the f1 or f40, bond's car have to be cutting edge, those are both old

[2ndclasscitizen]

can i point something out? the AMV8, whose interior at least looks, well to me, to be pretty much the same as the DB9/Vanquish (but i've only seen pics of them all so i'm not sure), and when Top Gear drove it, JC said most of the switches came from Volvo, whose cars have pretty nice interiors, i had a look at the new S40 at the motor show and it looked nice. And JC said it was a nice place to sit, and seeing as though he woulda sat in some damn nice interiors in his time, i imagine it doesn't really matter. I mean, i don't give a flying **** about the switches in the cars i drive, i just switch them and PAY ATTENTION TO DRIVING, NOT THE DASH AND SWITCHES, which you should most definately do, esp. if you're in a 500hp, V12 car

[2ndclasscitizen]

and actually, i just remembered, Wheels, an aussie car mag, says in the pro/con bit in the buyers guide in the back of the magazine that they missed in the Ford Ka vents that the concept car had

[Cyco]

Originally Posted by 2ndCC

I mean, i don't give a flying **** about the switches in the cars i drive, i just switch them and PAY ATTENTION TO DRIVING

I think you have got it exactly right there

[Coventrysucks]

Originally Posted by Clivey

It's not as if Ford are incapable of building a decent interior, the Range Rover is proof odf that.

Ford don't make interiors.

Johnson controls, Intier and Lear make interiors.

[Zondaboy1]

thats hot

[Clivey]

Originally Posted by Cyco

Every post you make regarding Astons?

If you actually thought about it, it's quite the opposite. I regard the current cars (except maybe the DB9) as not as good as their image. It's laughable to think that you are calling me this when you're the one that's on the waiting list! For the money you could buy quite a few more talented cars.

Originally Posted by Cyco

What, buy a Aston that is well tested and reliable? Yes, well not want to, I have.

No, buy one that isn't quite as good as it should be...I realise you're buying a V8 Vantage, not a Vanquish - the interior will be MUCH better in your car. there are only a few shared parts and they're not the ones that are especially bad in Fords.

Originally Posted by Cyco

Have you ever been in a Fiat, or Alfa? Doesnt sound like you have spent much time there to tell.

I live in Europe, therefore even without really intending, trying etc. I've probably spent more time in these cars than you. I have spent quite a lot of time in Alfas and Fiats...and I still stand by what I said in that Ferrari's parts sharing isn't anywhere near as obvious as that in the Vanquish. Even my girlfriend (who is interested but has much less knowledge of cars than most members here) commented on how cheap the Vanquish's interior was. If Ford had used parts from their latest cars, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as much of a problem as they've greatly improved the interior quality of their latest offerings. The generation of cars that share parts with the Vanquish though, were appauling in that department.

Originally Posted by Cyco

This piece around the bottom of the seat looks a lot like leather to me on a Vanq, didn't realise a Mondeo was so well speced.

Not around the bottom of the seat, under the seat where it isn't leather. The pice of plastic containing the electric controls for moving the seat. If you look on the cars database you can just about see it behind the handbrake (this though, is only on the standard version, Aston thankfully changed it for the S). This is just one small part though and it's not really worth a whole discussion over where it came from. The point is that in the later models (DB9 and Vantage), these parts have changed. Aston must have thought they needed to change them, otherwise they woudln't have done so. As I said, the interiors of the DB9 and V8 are much better. To be honest, one of the reasons I even asked my girlfriend what she thought of the interior of the Vanquish was to see what someone that wouldn't know where the parts came from thought. She pointed straight to the area of the steering wheel, column surround, the aircon vents (between the steering wheel and driver's door) and the switches on the driver's door and announced they looked tacky. She even said that the seats looked nasty but that she said, had a little more to do with the colour combination (This was the picture of the Vanquish S interior on the cars database).

Originally Posted by Cyco

That again in a Vanq looks remarkably similar to leather....

If you actually looked, this is clearly not the case. Once again I refer you to the pictures on the cars database. You don't need to look any further to see. To clarify, I am talking about the pice of the car that the control stalks are attached to, not the actual dashboard. The gear change paddles are an example of Aston trying to make an interior, the rest of the stalks arent.

Originally Posted by Cyco

Do you realise this has been going on ever since mass production started?

Parts sharing has, but the lowest quality parts available into the highest percieved quality cars? Once again, it wouldn't be a problem with the latest batch of Ford interiors but the previous generation clearly needed improvement, Ford realised this and acted accordingly, but it's a shame they stuck the old parts in the Vanquish first.

Originally Posted by Cyco

Do you also realise that the manufactures don't actually make most of the switch gear and the like, they just assemble it?

Of course, but they DO choose where they get it from.

Originally Posted by Cyco

If they were anywhere near as bad as you make out they would not have the current 2 year waiting list.

So there is a two year waiting list for the Vanquish is there? I wasn't talking about the V8 you've ordered. Actually, on the subject of that, do tell us more about it. What colours, specifications etc?

Originally Posted by Cyco

I can understand why you are so uptight then, the acting in that is woeful

Lol. For once I agree with you but it is a funny film and the cars, the cars...

Originally Posted by Cyco

Initally the AMV8 was due to share the Jag/Range Rover SC V8, but Ford decided to let Aston build their own.

Which was a good choice. Apparently it sounds fantastic...I've only heard one in person at low revs thus far. has anybody got the full details of this engine along with the ones for the 4.2 unit that Jaguar uses?

Originally Posted by Cyco

Is there an elegant way to exit a McLaren F1, especially in a Tux?

British humour my friend. You do realise I was joking...? Bond has to have the latest, with the exception of his proper Aston (I think you kow which one I'm talking about). Besides, the McLaren, whilst it is undoubtedly a fantastic car, has not got the refined and classy image of many of Bond's cars.

Originally Posted by Cyco

The only robot in Gaydon is the glue aplicator. The V600 was built by the same people in the same place as the Vanq, both under Ford ownership, so why would there be a quality difference> How do you know there is a quality difference?

You did not get the point. The robots in question would be the ones making the switchgear before it even reached Gaydon. Even the most caring of Aston employee at Gaydon couldn't single handedly improve the quality of th parts they were told to assemble. Ford gave them Mondeo switchgear, so that's what was fitted, it's not the guy who assembled it that's at fault, he's just doing his job. If you refer to the other thread, you'll see that I know there's a difference in quality because in only the first Vanquish I sat in, the finish was coming off the door handle and the surround. I've been in another two since, one was scratched similarly but I didn't touch it because it wasn't my car to mess around in and I didn't want to chip anymore off. The other was brand new and owned by someone that was unmarried and didn't wear any rings.

Originally Posted by Cyco

The Exterior was designed by Mr Fisker, the Chassis is the VH platform. Both are (currently) only used by Aston. What parts are Ford not letting them design?

The interior was a compete shambles, if the budget for it wasn't as tight, they would have come up with something more like the interior of the car you're waiting on.

Originally Posted by Cyco

It looks short because it is, and its ment to.

It's just my personal preference, I like an Aston to look like an Aston. None of the other Vantages have looked so short or toned down, the rear is fine (I like the shape) but the front lives up to the name "Baby" Aston...

[Clivey]

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

can i point something out? the AMV8, whose interior at least looks, well to me, to be pretty much the same as the DB9/Vanquish (but i've only seen pics of them all so i'm not sure), and when Top Gear drove it, JC said most of the switches came from Volvo, whose cars have pretty nice interiors, i had a look at the new S40 at the motor show and it looked nice. And JC said it was a nice place to sit, and seeing as though he woulda sat in some damn nice interiors in his time, i imagine it doesn't really matter.

The AMV8 has a much better interior than the Vanquish. I'm sorry but if you can't tell the difference, your eyesight may be failing you...Volvo, incase you didn't notice is owned by Ford, so it's quite possible that they share parts too. The new S40 was designed and built after the Vanquish and Ford's QC has improved greatly since then. The old S40 is probably the culprit! To be honest, the interior of that was poor as well...especially for the prices they charged.

JC is not the definitive authority on cars that most people tend to think he is. Remember, he did say during the McLaren F1's development and after it first came out that he thought it wasn't as talented as it was credited with. We all though, know how he slated the Vanquish when it first came out.

Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen

I mean, i don't give a flying **** about the switches in the cars i drive, i just switch them and PAY ATTENTION TO DRIVING, NOT THE DASH AND SWITCHES, which you should most definately do, esp. if you're in a 500hp, V12 car

Automakers should concentrate on the whole car for that kind of price and there's really no excuse for letting the car down with a crap interior. You may only buy a 500BHP V12 car because it has 500BHP V12, but you would notice the interior once you'd finished your initial toying with the car's performance. This argument has no weight as the car's supposed to be of quality. You could take a 500BHP V12 and shoehorn it into many different cars but an Aston should be about more than that.

Originally Posted by Coventrysucks

Ford don't make interiors.

Johnson controls, Intier and Lear make interiors.

Indeed, but who chooses them to? I doubt it's a random decision. Ford must have known that the quality of the Vanquish wasn't good enough otherwise they wouldn't have improved it for later models.

[Clivey]

If you wanted any more proof of what people think (of even the Vantage interior) watch Top Gear's test against the 911 2 S and the M6...

...then read Whatcar's review on the Vantage.

[Clivey]

Yes, I think this article pretty much sums up what I think about the Vantage, except for the though that it looks better from some angles than others:

Taken from Whatcar? February 2006

Aston's beauty is a beast

It's more than just a pretty face-it seems Aston has got it right with the V8 Vantage


You will find it hard to enter any discussion about the Aston Martin V8 Vantage without referring to its looks-the overall consensus being this is an exceptionally good-looking car.

Putting style to one side, however, how does the Vantage stack up against its rivals?

Pretty well. Central to its appeal is the 4.3-litre V8 engine under that low-slung bonnet. With 380bhp and 302lb ft of pull - 75% of which is available from just 1,500rpm - it's quick. The benchmark 0-60 time slips just under five seconds and potent acceleration is on tap. The six-speed manual gearbox and clutch require a heavy shove, but don't detract from the thumping performance.

Then there's the sound. From the low rumble at lesser revs to the full-throated roar when you floor the throttle, it's menacing and absolutely irresistible.

Where the Vantage's bigger brother - the DB9 - doesn't drive as well as it looks, the Vantage has both the mouth and the trousers. It's perfectly at home on fast twisty roads, thanks to relentless grip and steering that keeps you well informed. Ultimately it can't quite match a 911 for agility or entertainment, but it inspires masses of confidence and you have to push very hard to elicit a response from the stability control.

Although some wind and road noise is present, you can make effortless progress on long journeys. The ride is firm, though.

Thanks to a well laid out cabin, the Vantage makes fine everyday transport, with good space for two and a reasonable boot.

There are some irritations, however. Front and rear visibility could be better and there are some niggles; the small steering wheel obscures the top of the dials, for example, and it's hard to turn the ignition key due to the proximity to the dash.

The quality is also inconsistent - keen eyes will spot switchgear that's shared with Ford Group models that cost less than £20,000. Most people will find it hard to look beyond the external styling, however, and that remains the Vantage's greatest strength.

There is also a caption on an interior photo stating that "Dashboard layout needs more attention". This echoes my thoughts.

Having seen quite a few around Derby now though, I can definitely say it looks better from some angles than others, here's a pic of a not-so-nice viewpoint, making it look somewhat like an RX-8. Sorry for the quality (taken on a phone) but the "blurriness" only shows up the overall shape more.