The future of the car and the environment

[mmm_aapls]

Originally Posted by Ingolstadt

What if there were cars that pumps Reverse Osmosis water, and with an on board high efficiency electrolisis chamber, and solar panels. Hence during the day, the solar panels will provided electricity for the electrolisis, and at night, there would be a socket that plugs into the household electric line, performing electrolisis as well.

All the hydrogen will be stored in another chamber, once burned in combustion engine, (burning hydrogen leaves water) and walla! Exhaust will be water vapor and the leftover oxygen from the electrolisis.

I think burning hydrogen is something that manufactures will move away from since it is so inefficient (compared to hydrogen fuel cells). It takes a fair amount of power to create hydrogen from water, unless you add impurities such as salts which increase conductivity. But then you end up with waste products such as sodium, patassium ect.

Remeber you cannot create nor destory energy. So you need to take energy from somwehere to run the actual car. If you have a pump and perform electrolisis where are you getting the energy needed to do this?

I read the first post about using kenetic energy to propel cars. The only problem with that is again you cannot create nor destroy energy. With the fan on top of the car that creates electrical energy which in turn pushes the car forward, that system has a gain of grater than one, since the same wind which turns the fan, also pushes against the car. The car has mass and inertion, which changes due to road resistance.

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Only in the last year or so there's been much debate over it, And some even claim it doesn't offer better economy even though it's claim to carry the highest octane.. I can't see many recommending it on older cars.. A friend was just told if they use it don't use it to long make sure it's only in the car for 2 weeks max then go back to unleaded for a couple. I just wont use it after seeing what it done to my brothers car.. He only just found that out 4 days ago it was E-10 in his car from one of them cheapo independent servo's. The misses used it because it was cheap The roof lifted here. Now with 2 PULP tanks one shell and one BP it's getting better.. Well 4.5l/100km better off now.

Well 10% was the number that the manufacturers said wouldnt void the warranty, which started when the fuel distributors started putting ethanol in the fuel on the quiet. Now whoever has it basically says it outright as an E10 blend.

Ive got a friend though who would swear by E10 giving his car MORE economy. He reckons all the stuff about it burning cleaner and cooler does it as well as the higher octane (95 vs 91). Im not convinced its enough to overcome petrol having more chemical energy than ethanol.

[taz_rocks_miami]

Ok, I have a question. Lets say one day we do move away from petrol engines and adopt zero emissions forms of propulsion. What's gonna happen to the performance cars as we know them? I know there are a couple of electric cars out there that are very quick indeed, but they are practically silent. I don't know about the rest of you, I would miss hearing the engine note on a spirited drive. Will that be the end of sports and even super cars?

I'm all for cleaner fuels, I just hope as we use them more and more, cars don't lose their souls in the process. What do you think?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by taz_rocks_miami

Ok, I have a question. Lets say one day we do move away from petrol engines and adopt zero emissions forms of propulsion. What's gonna happen to the performance cars as we know them?

we will enter an era of great civilisation....

[taz_rocks_miami]

Originally Posted by henk4

we will enter an era of great civilisation....

Shoot me now!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by taz_rocks_miami

Shoot me now!

then somebody will have no uncle any more

[taz_rocks_miami]

Originally Posted by henk4

then somebody will have no uncle any more

Good point But seriously, how do we use cleaner fuels and keep our fun cars? I'm all for the Methanol and Alcohol ideas. Brazil is already using alcohol in their cars, seems like a good idea to me.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by taz_rocks_miami

Good point But seriously, how do we use cleaner fuels and keep our fun cars? I'm all for the Methanol and Alcohol ideas. Brazil is already using alcohol in their cars, seems like a good idea to me.

Burning hydrogen perhaps? Like the BMW 760h.

[SlickHolden]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

Well 10% was the number that the manufacturers said wouldnt void the warranty, which started when the fuel distributors started putting ethanol in the fuel on the quiet. Now whoever has it basically says it outright as an E10 blend.

Ive got a friend though who would swear by E10 giving his car MORE economy. He reckons all the stuff about it burning cleaner and cooler does it as well as the higher octane (95 vs 91). Im not convinced its enough to overcome petrol having more chemical energy than ethanol.

That might be all the cars complaining about bad fuel when they added ethanol into it and hid it.. So do you think we will ever see 50-100% ethanol fuels in OZ?.

On a side note slightly of topic my brother and i both filled with BP ultimate fuel last week, Both of us have been using premium shell (him) Caltex (me) For a long time.. But decided to try BP's best.. For him it's working fast, For me i'm getting what seem to be best fuel economy ever.. 320km with almost half left

[fpv_gtho]

E85 would be a logical next step, but it would require a different infrastructure to E10 and unleaded i believe.

[SlickHolden]

I don't mind it if they build cars to run it, But the old buggers like my VP wont like it very much, And even the VT might think it's shet

[NSXType-R]

Just a slight comment-

I don't know which alternative fuel we'll be using, but any alternative fuel sounds boring. Yeah, I know it's good for the environment, but think of it this way- engines won't sound the same anymore. Maybe hydrogen and ethanol (corn oil) will sound somewhat the same, but electric and fuel cell won't for sure.

That makes the future sound very boring to me. Literally.

Any comments, ideas?

[fpv_gtho]

Any comments, ideas?

If ethanol or methanol can be produced in the mass quantities needed to replace our current dependancy on oil based fuels, theres no reason i can see other than infrastructure for why it wont be developed, and alcohol fuels have a long history with motorsport. In many aspects they operate better than oil fuels, the biggest drawback i can think of is the higher consumption. The difference in sound and everything else i'd imagine would be negligible.

Electric is a major drawcard for being zero emission, but i could easily see the worlds manufacturers using alcohol fuels as a bridge into electric cars. Until that time, they can work on the environment hazards the batteries needed in electric and hybrid cars seem to produce through their production.

[NSXType-R]

I mean it as in a feel of the car. An electric car will never have the same feel as a car powered on gasoline, or ethanol. It won't sound the same or feel the same. Torque delivery is instant. You won't get the growl of a V-8 anymore. That's what I meant. Alternative fuel cars are necessary, but they will be boring.

I wonder, what happens to Ferrari when they switch to full electric?

[fpv_gtho]

Well by that time, i think we'll be seeing people putting jet turbines in their cars to get something more linear and aural in performance.