Who actually cares about "global warming"? And is cutting CO2 important?

[-What-]

Originally Posted by henk4

I think you already know how "we" do it, because you classified it as being unscientific. And to make that judgement, you need to know what method is being used.

I'm sorry, could you further clarify the way you would take the AVERAGE temperture of THE BIG ASS MULTI-CLIMATE EARTH. Just to clear everything up and maybe get things settled.

[drakkie]

As usual everybody in the discussion thinks they know it all. To quote Socrates: I know everything, because I know I know nothing.



And an interesting link to end with, though it is filmed not at all from a neutral point of view:

The Great Global Warming Swindle

[henk4]

Originally Posted by drakkie

As usual everybody in the discussion thinks they know it all. To quote Socrates: I know everything, because I know I know nothing.



And an interesting link to end with, though it is filmed not at all from a neutral point of view:

The Great Global Warming Swindle

I have looked at the first ten minutes. Global warming as such there is not questioned, they only put question marks behind the reasons....whether it is CO2 driven or not.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by -What-

I'm sorry, could you further clarify the way you would take the AVERAGE temperture of THE BIG ASS MULTI-CLIMATE EARTH. Just to clear everything up and maybe get things settled.

Let's see ... how do you take the average height of the BIG ASS American population you're a part of ?
It's really easy to do, the recent advances have improved the number of datapoints and the accuracy of each and thus imrpvoed the "average".

Originally Posted by drakkie

As usual everybody in the discussion thinks they know it all. To quote Socrates: I know everything, because I know I know nothing.

WHere'd you get the Socrates "quote" ?
As none of Socrates writings exist then it's the reports of others.
Variously "All I know is I know nothing" or another way "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance"
Not quite the same

The Great Global Warming Swindle

So you beleived them when they said they were reporting from a "neutral viewpoint" ?
It's not, it sets out to support the admittedly suppressed view of the alternative interpretation of the figures and research presented.
So it doesn't compare and evaluate, it produces the reasoning and commentary of "the other side".

It is NOT black-and-white and the problem is too many present it as such and hence "understanding" is lost amongst the balancing of opinion

[Kooper]

Global warming may be a significant issue, but I fail to see how the current general "cars are evil" thinking came to being.

What's more alarming I think is the rapid rate at which forests are disappearing. Maybe instead of swapping engines for batteries, wood in cars can be replaced with oh I don't know, aluminum? Maybe less wood-based products the world over?

Or maybe less people even? We all produce CO2 with every breath, last time I checked we numbered in excess of 6 billion. That's a whole lot of CO2 right there, and even more when those breaths are from politicians...

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kooper

Or maybe less people even? We all produce CO2 with every breath, last time I checked we numbered in excess of 6 billion. That's a whole lot of CO2 right there, and even more when those breaths are from politicians...

That truly is the biggest issue facing the globe. Think about it. Every single problem we have - politically, medically, monetarily, natural resources - could be improved or solved by population control. I'm not saying we should take drastic measures, like killing children or instituting mandatory sterilization. It should be a cultural and moral change.

[SlickHolden]

Originally Posted by henk4

right, so he can paint a global picture....

Yes but the other arts the artist. I know you have a pretty good sence of humour i'm sure it will come to you.

Originally Posted by -What-

I don't have an Arts degree, but I have all the knowledge and gifts needed to be a competitive artist.



Someone tell me how we could accurately measure the Earth's "avg" temperture. Please, I want to know how you'd do it.

I'm sure you have many gift, But the art of humour isn't one of them.

[CapnBoost]

I wish i knew where this 20m figure was coming from. From what i've read, the IPCC report is talking about the sea level rising over a course of 300 years and an increase in temperature over the next 100 years of about 1.5 degrees. In the last 100 years the temperature increased roughly 1 degree, i'm not sure about the sea level.

The hockey stick is taken from mathematical models and estimations from ice bore holes and all sorts of imprecise calculations. If you would like to claim that those are temperature meters accurate to one tenth of one degree then so be it. I'm not certain that i believe that the tools to measure temperature available in the 1700's were accurate to 5 times that (.5 degrees) furthermore you have to account for *global* temperature. Were these devices in place all over the globe? The answer is no.

Long story short- the earth is warming, how much and how fast we don't know exactly. What can we do to mitigate the consequences to populated areas- we know that, but instead we'd rather throw billions (trillions?) of dollars at a mechanism so large it's ridiculous to think we can alter it.

Local weather patterns are not necessarily caused by global warming. US hurricane strength is not due to global warming. etc, etc.

This FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) mongering is exactly why i won't buy anything that these chicken littles are selling. They don't even read their own material. It makes me raaaaaaaaaage.

[werty]

Now that I think about it, I couldve voted for the 1st poll option, seeing as the Enzo is tech smaller than my truck, and I would gladly hand over the truck for it

[drakkie]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

WHere'd you get the Socrates "quote" ?
As none of Socrates writings exist then it's the reports of others.
Variously "All I know is I know nothing" or another way "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance"
Not quite the same

I have the complete Apologia and Phaedo of Plato on my desk, in ancient Greek. In the past I translated it to Dutch(for school and fun) and now again to English. That's probably where the mix-up occured. I can't be bothered to find the exact phrase in these 1000+ page books, but we mean the same anyway.

So you beleived them when they said they were reporting from a "neutral viewpoint" ?

Nope, not at all. Nobody in this world is unbiased, even if they do their best to do so. Some come close perhaps, or (we) think they do, but it is impossible to be so.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Originally Posted by -What-

I don't have an Arts degree, but I have all the knowledge and gifts needed to be a competitive artist.
.

The fact you call them "competitive" artists shows your complete lack of understanding of the artistic world.

your knowledge.....it's faulty.

[roosterjuicer]

Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows

The fact you call them "competitive" artists shows your complete lack of understanding of the artistic world.
.

why is that? dont artists need to compete with eachother to make money?

[The_Canuck]

No, I assume real artists don't care about money. I don't think of "artist" as a profession.

[egeurtsen]

Whether we believe it or not, changes are underway at a huge rate. I'm amazed how little discussions there is on these pages about new drive technologies. Why is everybody so defensive? Change is going to be exciting! Cars are going to be transformed completely over the next 10-20 years and much of the industry is already flat-out behind the scenes.
Does anybody realise that in Europe 90% of car trips are less than 10 miles long. And that the average speeds in our cities (Europe again) is less than 20 mph?

[drakkie]

Originally Posted by egeurtsen

Whether we believe it or not, changes are underway at a huge rate. I'm amazed how little discussions there is on these pages about new drive technologies. Why is everybody so defensive? Change is going to be exciting! Cars are going to be transformed completely over the next 10-20 years and much of the industry is already flat-out behind the scenes.

First of all, welcome to UCP. As you can probably understand most automotive enthusaists are quite conservative in this area. We like the feel, sound etcetera of the current ICE's. Also a lack of knowledge about these kind of engines contributes to this.

Like me, most of us think about the "old" processes, in a car. I feel rather lucky that besides the "old" way of powering a vehicle, my studies (Automotive Engineering, Rotterdam) cover new hybrid and electric systems quite intensively. I'd love to start a good discussion about it, though the engineering parts of it are a nightmare to calculate IMO.

It MIGHT be the future, but there is still so much more to gain in the development of ICE's, especially Diesels. To quote one of my teachers, perhaps only 10% of Diesel engine's capabilities are used.

The industry as it seems to me, is not at all flat-out because they don't really want to save the environment. They just want to sell cars, associated with "being green". Absolutely great marketing tool for them. Many other companies do the same, it seems to me.