The Kooper supercar/ racecar prototype

[Kooper]

Part II. The originals are in the Chops thread, but this isn't really a chop.

Plus I wanted to test whether I'm on the right track by getting an official UCP go-ahead.


Here's my latest project, so far with a front-view (not complete yet) added.


I essentially want your input, at the very least a vote, be it yay or nay.


I'd like to take this all the way to a 3D render, first I'd need to learn how the heck to do a 3D render, but that's my end-goal.

Any input welcome, and don't hold back. Feel the need to burn me, do so, all comments welcome!


EDIT:

Darnit, a minor detail got lost somehow. Added it back in:




UPDATE:

Added rear wing (transparented slightly)

[Ferrer]

It doesn't look bad, but on the side view it looks way too long for some reason. Also if it was to be a road car in my opinion it has too much spoilers and wings and vents. I personally prefer a more understated style.

But it's a good starting point.

[Kooper]

Thanks Ferrer

Yep, a whole lot of wings and vents there, hehe. Have to admit I went a bit crazy with it, but I'll clean her up a bit later on.

[Coventrysucks]

Originally Posted by Kooper

I'd like to take this all the way to a 3D render, first I'd need to learn how the heck to do a 3D render, but that's my end-goal.

When you say 3D render, do you mean a 2D rendering of a "3D" perspective view, or a CAD model?

As for the design, it is pretty good.

There are some elements that could be improved; the proportions of the cabin sitting within the wheelbase looks a little odd, making the car look very long.

The curvature of some of the lines could do with some tweaking too - they are generally ok, but you'd be surprised the difference in character that can be made with small adjustments in the "acceleration" of the curves.

The most obvious ones are on the body side between the wheels; they have the effect of making the car look as if it is hogging - bending in the middle.
Chief culprit there is the grey area at the bottom - it either needs to be eliminated entirely, or carried on towards the rear from the mid point, parallel to the bottom of the car.

HTH.

[Kooper]

Originally Posted by Coventrysucks

When you say 3D render, do you mean a 2D rendering of a "3D" perspective view, or a CAD model?

As for the design, it is pretty good.

There are some elements that could be improved; the proportions of the cabin sitting within the wheelbase looks a little odd, making the car look very long.

The curvature of some of the lines could do with some tweaking too - they are generally ok, but you'd be surprised the difference in character that can be made with small adjustments in the "acceleration" of the curves.

The most obvious ones are on the body side between the wheels; they have the effect of making the car look as if it is hogging - bending in the middle.
Chief culprit there is the grey area at the bottom - it either needs to be eliminated entirely, or carried on towards the rear from the mid point, parallel to the bottom of the car.

HTH.

Excellent feedback, thanks Coventrysucks

The 3D rendering? Not quite sure yet, probably Blender/ 3DSMax. I think a CAD render would be waaaay above my abilities at present.

I'll redo the cabin, tried to make it follow current F1 design, though I think I cramped the section from the cockpit backwards a tad.

I'm not quite sure I'm with you on the "acceleration" bit, do you mean the way the lines curve from where they start? Less curve the longer the line?

I hear what you're saying about the bent bottom between the wheels. For some reason I always make it a bit hunchbacked in that area, why exactly I'm not sure. I'll do a straight-lined version and post soon.

Thanks again for the feedback, appreciated.

[Matra et Alpine]

Looking a good start.
What about approx dimensions tho' ......
Wheelbase ? Cockpit ? Seating position and driver location ??
Can we get a rear and plan view ? difficult to judge what's happening between the wheel "humps".
Engine/transaxle layout ? and sizes ?
The rear deck looks too low for a decent sized engine and intakes. Or the engine looks as if it may sit well forward in the cockpit and needs midget to drive ?
Are you concerned with Aero ? I'd watch out for that flat rear deck - will cause high turbulence breakaway on the rear

oh and rear wheel well - doesn't need to be oval as they don't turn liek the fronts. For drag either close them in completely or to the wheel profile.

[Kooper]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Looking a good start.
What about approx dimensions tho' ......
Wheelbase ? Cockpit ? Seating position and driver location ??
Can we get a rear and plan view ? difficult to judge what's happening between the wheel "humps".
Engine/transaxle layout ? and sizes ?
The rear deck looks too low for a decent sized engine and intakes. Or the engine looks as if it may sit well forward in the cockpit and needs midget to drive ?
Are you concerned with Aero ? I'd watch out for that flat rear deck - will cause high turbulence breakaway on the rear

oh and rear wheel well - doesn't need to be oval as they don't turn liek the fronts. For drag either close them in completely or to the wheel profile.

Hey Matra, glad you asked.

Now this is where I need serious help. I thought about this long and hard, but I'm still a bit lost to be honest.

Here's what I was thinking (and please don't apply my figures to the car as yet, chances are it'll be way off):


Wheelbase: Approx. 2700mm
Width: Approx. 1950mm
Drivetrain: RWD, 7 spd. manumatic, engine and gearbox stress-bearing members.
Engine: Torn-up between 3.5 to 4.0 twin-turbo V8 and 6.0 to 6.5 N/A V12.


Furthermore, the engine would have to be longitudinal, gearbox as well fitting in behind the engine, with rear suspension linked directly to gearbox.

Lost with the driver location as well, probably a traditional 2-seater arrangement. Considered a 3 seat layout as with a Mac F1 roadcar, though I think a 2-seater would be just fine.

"Engine/transaxle layout ? and sizes ?" - Sorry mate, I got no idea.

Fuel tank would have to be between the engine and cockpit firewall.

Midget-sized driver is ab-so-lute-ly out of the question. I'd have to fit in it myself, and the beer-belly aint helping!

Aero, yes, to an extent. Down-force takes precedence though, would like this sucker to be able to drive upside-down at say 180km/h.

3.2G cornering on slicks would be nice.

Wet-weight, no more than say 900kg, with 100-or-so fuel cap.


Rear wheel-well? Consider it done.

Any technical suggestion would be most welcomed, say it and it's done!


Cheers for the feedback buddy


edt:

Oh yeah, about the rear-view, busy working on it. I'd like to do a top-view as well. The floor-plan might be a bit tricky for me at the moment, but I'll try to get it done soonest.


edt #2:

Top speed, 300km/h with max. downforce and shortest gearing; 390km/h with lowest downforce and tallest gearing.

At least 800hp in endurance-tune (24hr) should suffice.

[Coventrysucks]

Originally Posted by Kooper

The 3D rendering? Not quite sure yet, probably Blender/ 3DSMax. I think a CAD render would be waaaay above my abilities at present.

Well, Blender/3DSMax would be CAD.

There always seems to be lots of 3DSMax tutorials about, I've not used it myself, so I don't know how difficult it is to get to grips with.

So much fun; figuring out how the shapes work in 3D, actually building them, materials, lighting, camera effects...

I've got about 30 models that I have given up on through either frustration or boredom, but it is nice when it all comes together.

Good luck!

Give it a go though, with the advances in technology, there is lots of demand for engineering, industrial and product design as well as video games and films. Many opportunities for making money.

Originally Posted by Kooper

I'm not quite sure I'm with you on the "acceleration" bit, do you mean the way the lines curve from where they start? Less curve the longer the line?

It is the change in radius of a curve along its length; if you look at the "B-pillar" of your side window, it starts curved at the bottom, then straightens out at the top as the radius increases.

[Kooper]

Originally Posted by Coventrysucks

Well, Blender/3DSMax would be CAD.

Err, oh... Well, you learn something new everyday!

Originally Posted by Coventrysucks

There always seems to be lots of 3DSMax tutorials about, I've not used it myself, so I don't know how difficult it is to get to grips with.

So much fun; figuring out how the shapes work in 3D, actually building them, materials, lighting, camera effects...

I've got about 30 models that I have given up on through either frustration or boredom, but it is nice when it all comes together.

Good luck!


Give it a go though, with the advances in technology, there is lots of demand for engineering, industrial and product design as well as video games and films. Many opportunities for making money.

Yeah, definitely my dream-job that. I'll be able to do that every-day for the rest of my life with a smile on my face. Tried using Alias once, though I gave up on it after round 9... Really is much harder than it looks.

Originally Posted by Coventrysucks

It is the change in radius of a curve along its length; if you look at the "B-pillar" of your side window, it starts curved at the bottom, then straightens out at the top as the radius increases.

Got it. I'll make some adjustments based on the feedback so far and post.

Thanks again for the feedback all, I really appreciate it.

[Kooper]

Sorry to bump, but got an update here...

OK, stretched the cockpit / engine bay a bit, enclosed the rear wheels for improved aero. This was hastily done, will do a more accurate version later on.




EDIT: Might be worth mentioning inspirational cars: Le Mans LMP1 cars / GT1 wonder-year cars (CLR, Toyota GT1, mostly '98 Porsche GT1), current F1 cars, Zonda, whole lot of Porsche, pre-WWII record breakers.


EDIT (again):

Almost forgot to straighten out that belly:

[orshow]

can i just ask, was your initial design based on a Maserati MC12? it looks nice by the way

[F1_Master]

I like the design, but it looks long enough to make the Exelero look short.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by Kooper

Drivetrain: RWD, 7 spd. manumatic, engine and gearbox stress-bearing members.

No clutch = not good...

[digitalcraft]

Looks more like a Nissan R390

[drakkie]

To be honest there are some aerodynamic points that can be improved. It seems to me the total frontal surface is pretty big. Perhaps by stretching the car, you can move the cabin a little backwards. This will create the possibility of making the driver lie flatter. Which again will allow a much lower cockpit.

Also the rounded edges on the sides of the car are of no real help. These lines would have to make the body be higher (to fit the curves around the wheel) and creating more frontal surface too.

If you want to keep this project going and be able to really create something, these following are the steps we learn to take on school. Trust me it helps, I learned by failure that if you dont stick to them, it WILL fail.

1)

Product Idea.

This phase is where you are now. You have an idea and started to define it a little bit yet.

2)

Concept definition.

This phase is very important as well. Here you will define your idea in the biggest details. Say the engine kind, general layout and packaging. Those kind of things.

3)

Principle Solutions.

In this phase the first sketches,drawings and concepts of the vehicle are put together. You will for example make the first concepts of the engine and try and fit it. Or you will design a basic suspension or something.

4)

Defining the construction.

Everything will now be completed by itself. Every part is fully designed until ready and is fitted in a completed vehicle.


5)

Start of investments in industrialization.


6)

Test runs.

7)

Production start.

Now you can probably skip step 5-7 here, as we do too most of the times...

My best advice for you to do next is to make a clear list of demands for the car. Before you will define the design further you should also make a drawing of the packaging. This will greatly help your design too, as it will add realism.

With packaging I mean where everything will be put in the car. Where the driver will be and where the engine will be. It might seem like rubbish for you, but it will give you a much better perspective of the vehicle itself. It will also help provide a basis for your design, as you have some solid data. I made this one below when given the assignment to design a improved suspension for my car.



Let me know when you need any help with the technical bits and pieces. I can also help you out a bit when learning to 3D-CAD. Try out Solidworks, it is a fairly easy programme to learn and within 6 months you will be able to do practically everything.


PS / Edit:

remember the plans I had for designing my own ride ? They kind of failed because I didnt stick to these rules. Also lack of time helped, those German girls sure were sweet