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[QUOTE=Fleet 500]How about something from 2005? Or is that too old also? Maybe I'll try to find an article from 2007 or 2008 (I don't know how, but I'll try).
As far as average reliability, American cars passed up European cars about 2 years ago. I guess you guys missed when it happened. :D[/QUOTE]
First it only surveys cars sold in America :)
SO you are ONLY into the high ticket price cars.
Second how much is it swayed by M-Ds foray into electric motors for everything.
Something which they have recognised was a BIG mistake in their luxury cars.
Learn a bit about the majority of Eureopan and Japanese cars :)
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[QUOTE=Fleet 500]That is interesting. Something I haven't read, either.[/QUOTE]
Cpnfirms one thing.
This was commented on and the link to the news report SOURCE provided previously :)
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]First it only surveys cars sold in America :)
SO you are ONLY into the high ticket price cars.
Second how much is it swayed by M-Ds foray into electric motors for everything.
Something which they have recognised was a BIG mistake in their luxury cars.
Learn a bit about the majority of Eureopan and Japanese cars :)[/QUOTE]
VW isn't high priced and its reliability is one the worst in the states (as well as Audi even though they sell well). When Fiat was in the US its reliablity was worse then the domestic (american) cars and that was in the 80's. They couldn't capitialize of the detroit junk of the era, yet the "no name" japanese automakers at the time were making a killing in the US market. The japanese, hands down build the most reliable vechiles in the world. And the US manufactors use them as a benchmarkfor probably to decades now, hence giving them a slight edge ,in reliabilty, over most european cars, nowadays. Speaking of the ones avialable in the US- it would see how puegots[spell*] would fair here,i kind of like those
However europe still is known for and has many, reliable vechiles like Volvo, the 911andboxster engines are said by many of being mechanically perferct, BM's have low reliabity issues, before M-B started over engineering there vechiles they were much higher ranking in reliability-the old M-B turbo diesels were bulletproof and last long about 350,000m/450,000km onthe odo in may accounts in the old school 500SEL's and such.
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[QUOTE=zeta]VW isn't high priced and its reliability is one the worst in the states (as well as Audi even though they sell well).[/QUOTE]
and yet Skoda one of the most reliable in Europe ?
They're VWs :) Slaos you guys don't get the samller ones liek Polo and Lupo so arent' comparing like with like.
Also the survey didnt' break it down by age of car.
Bad information :) and as has been suggested before possibly poorly trained and equiped shops :) Pay them the level of a McDonalds flipper and you get the appropriate quality :(
For example, it was common to see 20 year old VW Beetles on the roads in the 80s and PLETY of the camper vans. BAD surveys are worse than none at all - especially ones with an "agenda" :)
[QUOTE] When Fiat was in the US its reliablity was worse then the domestic (american) cars and that was in the 80's.[/QUOTE]
The same was true here and the BMC cars of the day. Teh era of union power was at it's strongest in the 70s and it destroyed a car industry :(
[QUOTE] They couldn't capitialize of the detroit junk of the era, yet the "no name" japanese automakers at the time were making a killing in the US market. The japanese, hands down build the most reliable vechiles in the world. And the US manufactors use them as a benchmarkfor probably to decades now, hence giving them a slight edge ,in reliabilty, over most european cars, nowadays.[/QUOTE]
EVerybody then used the Japanese as the bench-mark as their productino methods were clearly the best. The built-IN quality, not tested it out at the end ( the norm for everyone else till then ).
NOW the Japanese are learnign from the French. Renault have made a HUGE difference at Nissan since Carlos Ghosn was put in charge - he is now the MOST cited manager in quality and customer-focus development in place of the many Japanese companies in the past !!
[QUOTE] Speaking of the ones avialable in the US- it would see how puegots[spell*] would fair here,i kind of like those
However europe still is known for and has many, reliable vechiles like Volvo, the 911andboxster engines are said by many of being mechanically perferct, BM's have low reliabity issues, before M-B started over engineering there vechiles they were much higher ranking in reliability-the old M-B turbo diesels were bulletproof and last long about 350,000m/450,000km onthe odo in may accounts in the old school 500SEL's and such.[/QUOTE]
Let me repeat, the low-ticket cars are much better reliability as they don't have all the fancy bits which are the ones that break. M-B is much publicised over it's choice to REMOVE as many as 300 electrical components from their top of the range cars to correct the reliability issues they've been hampered with. The lower end cars don't HAVE those and hence are more reliable. BUT you dont' get the chance to buy those ones :(
Here's the UK JDPower survey for 2004 -- [url]http://www.whatcar.co.uk/News_SpecialReport.asp?NA_ID=207800&EL_ID=3061018[/url]
note where the 5-series is. and the Skodas ( they're VW owned and share most parts BTW ). and the 3-series. Many of these cars are actually designed and built in Europe - eg Nissan Primera in Sunderland !!
The E-series comes in at 40, but there are NO service details on the JDPower US for the E-class. See you can't compare. Sheez, even the 2003 Ford FOcus doesn't have a full rating. WHAT info are you ACTUALLY basing this reliability on ? I alawys assumed the JDPower to be the accepted 'best' in the US and yet their on-line info is VERY limited :(
It's like saying Bush is a better President than Kerry. You can't tell cause you can't experience the other.
Liek you say the diesel no-frills M-Bs were very reliable and still are and STILL rack up the 100s of ks in German taxi ranks :)
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]First it only surveys cars sold in America :)
SO you are ONLY into the high ticket price cars.
Second how much is it swayed by M-Ds foray into electric motors for everything.
Something which they have recognised was a BIG mistake in their luxury cars.
Learn a bit about the majority of Eureopan and Japanese cars :)[/QUOTE]
Yes, cars sold in America, but you may be surprised how many are available in America. This same magazine has a "vehicle profile," in which they briefly describe each car for sale in the U.S. Here are some which are available out here:
Lotus Elise
Acura: MDX, RL, RSX, TL, TSX, A3, A4, A6, A8, TT
BMW: 3 Series, 5, 6 and 7 Series, X3, X5, Z4
Mercedes: C-Class, CLK, CLS, E-Class, M-Class, S-Class, SLK
Mini-Cooper
Porsche: Boxster, Cayenne
Saab: 9-2X, 9-3, 9-5, 9-7X
Scion: tC, xA, xB
Subaru: Baja, Forester, Impreza, Legacy/Outback
VW: Golf, Jetta, New Beetle, Passat, Phaeton, Touareg
Volvo: S40/V50, S60, S80, V70/XC70, SC90
Some years back, when the European cars were ahead of the American cars, there was about the same choice of cars available, so the survey is still valid.
And, no, the Consumer Reports surveys cover all kinds of cars, low and high price. In fact, the lower-priced ones are probably covered more because more people can afford them.
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[QUOTE=zeta]VW isn't high priced and its reliability is one the worst in the states (as well as Audi even though they sell well). When Fiat was in the US its reliablity was worse then the domestic (american) cars and that was in the 80's. They couldn't capitialize of the detroit junk of the era, yet the "no name" japanese automakers at the time were making a killing in the US market. The japanese, hands down build the most reliable vechiles in the world. And the US manufactors use them as a benchmarkfor probably to decades now, hence giving them a slight edge ,in reliabilty, over most european cars, nowadays.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget, originally, the Japanese copied (bought American cars and learned the technology) American cars back in the '60s.
In the '50s and '60s, reliability of American cars was very good and reliabilty of Japanese cars left much to be desired.
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]ONLY IF
1) it was a valid survey - see comments about his emplyer :)
2) other manufacturers haven't improved THEIR quality !!
So it's even MORE wrong toady ( because others HAVE improved - check out a RELIABLE survey liek JDPowers or Which or TopGear :)[/QUOTE]
The National Enquirer is, of course, not valid with many different subjects- UFO's, predictions for the coming year, celebrities, etc. But with cars, there would be no reason for them to be biased or inaccurate.
Yes, it was not exactly a scientific survey, but more like a real-world one. Actually out on the road and noting which cars were towed. With so many more American cars on the road back then than imported cars, you would think the imports would have rarely been seen needing mechanical repairs.
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Ford & GM own 80% of the cars on the road. American wins by default. Also please stop referring to Aston Martin , Jaguar & Saab as non-American since GM owns Saab & Ford owns the other 2. If it's owned by an American CO then it's American. :D :D :D :D GO TEAM AMERICA :D :D :cool:
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[QUOTE=thestanger]Ford & GM own 80% of the cars on the road. American wins by default. Also please stop referring to Aston Martin , Jaguar & Saab as non-American since GM owns Saab & Ford owns the other 2. If it's owned by an American CO then it's American. :D :D :D :D GO TEAM AMERICA :D :D :cool:[/QUOTE]
Yes.
Aston Martin, Land Rover and Jaguar are American.
That is why they are designed, engineered and built in Britain by (a majority of) British people.
That must mean that all Dodges, Chryslers and Jeeps are German, since Daimler is the dominant partner...
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They are still owned by American Co. If that means Dodges are German, so be it. :D .
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You'd also have to ignore the fact that those three companies are still registered as British...
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The fat bank still rolls this way.
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here's a list of american vs european vs japanese cars.
American = Red
European = Blue
Japanese = Green
--------------------------------
[COLOR=Blue]BMW owns:
-BMW
-Mini
-Rolls Royce[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red]Daimler/Chrysler owns:
-AMC (brand discontinued -- Chrysler bought AMC primarily for the Jeep brand which was owned by AMC)
-Chrysler
-Dodge
-Eagle (brand discontinued)
-Hyundai (Daimler/Chrysler only owns 10% --13 May 04 changes!)
-Jeep
-Maybach
-Mercedes-Benz
-Mitsubishi (Daimler/Chrysler owns 37%)
-Plymouth (brand discontinued)
-Smart[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Blue]Fiat owns:
-Alfa Romeo
-Ferrari
-Fiat
-Lancia
-Maserati[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red]Ford owns:
-Aston Martin
-Ford
-Jaguar
-Land Rover (bought from BMW)
-Lincoln
-Mazda (Ford owns 33% of Mazda)
-Mercury
-Volvo cars[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Green]Fuji Heavy Industries owns:
-Subaru[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red]General Motors owns:
-Buick
-Cadillac
-Chevrolet
-Daewoo (GM owns 44%)
-Fiat (GM owns ~20%) (GM has decided to divorce itself from Fiat as of Feb '05)
-Fuji Heavy Industries (GM owns ~20%)
-GMC
-Holden
-Hummer
-Isuzu (GM only owns a percentage)
-Oldsmobile (brand discontinued)
-Opel
-Pontiac
-Saab
-Saturn
-Subaru (GM owns 20%)
-Suzuki (GM only owns a small percentage)
-Vauxhall[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Green]Honda owns:
-Acura
-Honda[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Green]Hyundai owns:
-Hyundai
-Kia[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Green]Nissan owns:
-Infiniti
-Nissan
-Renault (Nissan owns 15%)[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Blue]PSA Peugeot Citroen owns:
-Citroen
-Peugeot[/COLOR]
Porsche is an independent company (they do work very closely with VW, however)
[COLOR=Blue]Renault owns:
-Nissan (Renault owns 44%)[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Green]Toyota owns:
-Lexus
-Scion
-Toyota[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Blue]Volkswagen owns:
-Audi
-Bentley
-Bugatti
-Lamborghini
-SEAT
-Skoda
-Volkswagen[/COLOR]
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That doesn't stop the likes of AM, Jaguar, LR, Bentley etc from still being registered as British companies
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i would register my stuff all day long in britan too if i could get the cheaper taxes.