hey every one. Im an ametuer in this whole car thing but diffinitly interested.
What production car has the best road holding capabilities? How is this tested?
Ive been researching and these are just some sugestions.
Lotus Elise
Ferrari F-430
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hey every one. Im an ametuer in this whole car thing but diffinitly interested.
What production car has the best road holding capabilities? How is this tested?
Ive been researching and these are just some sugestions.
Lotus Elise
Ferrari F-430
[QUOTE=car_fan17]hey every one. Im an ametuer in this whole car thing but diffinitly interested.
What production car has the best road holding capabilities? How is this tested?
Ive been researching and these are just some sugestions.
Lotus Elise
Ferrari F-430[/QUOTE]
Well it totally depends on the driver, track, weather, etc. etc. etc., but modern supercars are going to be on top, not the 430 or Elise.
Ultima GTR holds the record for largest g-force held on a skidpan. And I wouldn't really say that the big supercars handle the best. Theyre big and have alot of power ... doesn't really sound like they have much finesse to me.
If this counts, the Yamaha OX119 was apparently so fast around corners it hurt :) However, that didn't reach production but almost did.
"Best Handling Car" is too wide ranging a category to give a definitive answer. Aside from the fact that essentially it all boils down to subjective personal opinion, there are many parameters to consider. In terms of 'road holding capabilities', in the crudest terms that usually comes down to a matter of outright grip. Cars that are lightened, low CoG, firm suspension and with sticky tyres will generally be able to produce higher cornering forces. However, there is also the matter of chassis 'balance' (ie the cars propensity to under/over- steer). How easily exploitable a car's handling is, and how enjoyable a car is to drive, will largely depend on this 'balance', which can be affected by any number of different facets of the set-up.
Also there is the matter of the ride quality. The things outlined above are important things in setting up a car for ultimate performance, like in a track situation. In terms of actual 'road' holding as opposed to the 'track' holding things become more complicated. A lightened, lowered, stiffened car with sticky, low-profile track-oriented tyres (eg Porsche 911GT3RS, Ferrari 360CS) will perform outstandingly on a track. On a slippery, leaf strewn, rutted, bumpy country road these cars will become considerably less enjoyable. You'd want something with a little more compliancy in the suspension, and tyres better suited to wet-weather.
Finding this compromise between ultimate performance and usability/exploitability is the real 'black art' of setting up a well sorted sportscar. The examples you've given are very good examples. Lotus is notorious for having a remarkable level of compliancy in it's suspension without sacrificing grip and balance. This is largely done through very lightweight construction methods. The F430 is perhaps the best example of a truly 21st century high technology sportscar. The active suspension allows you to alter the settings between compliancy for the everyday road, and stiffness for the track. This kind of technology will probably end up being the future for the vast majority of sportscars because of the versatility and practicality.
:)
A lot of people say that the Toyota AE86 handles really good. :)
my idea of good handling would probably be somehwhere near the insane and with horrible ride quality, so i dont feel im best to judge :D
Welcome to ucp Car fan. It really depends how you define best handling car. Typically I would say cars that are lightweight, have a pretty stiff suspension, have a near perfect 50/50 weight distribution and have extremely sticky tires, are going to be the cars which are best at handling.
ariel atom?
The Caterham Seven
Ariel Atom, Caterham Seven, a bunch of Lotii, Honda S2000, Mazda MX-5, etc. etc.
[QUOTE=:Exige:]If this counts, the Yamaha OX119 was apparently so fast around corners it hurt :) However, that didn't reach production but almost did.[/QUOTE]
I thought it was available by request, but no-one bought one? Not the most reliable source though.
Lotus 340R? Aston Martin V8 Vantage? Honda NSX-R?
i find this hard to answer, a car that is loose and nervous to me might feel responsive and light to someone else, it really depends on what you're looking for.
I'm biased, but many experts still agree, the original Lotus Elan.
Classic Car mag did a review (last year I think - maybe the year before) of nearly all the Lotus family. They still awarded top marks to the '60s Elan for handling but said the Elise ran it really close and represented a real return to form for Lotus. :D
I would nominate the Porsche Bosxter S as the ultimate handler (that you can drive every day). In a recent EVO test it was faster than the Porsche 911 S, also, the "rookie" tester said it inspired more confidence so it was easier to achieve those times.
[QUOTE=magracer]I would nominate the Porsche Bosxter S as the ultimate handler (that you can drive every day). In a recent EVO test it was faster than the Porsche 911 S, also, the "rookie" tester said it inspired more confidence so it was easier to achieve those times.[/QUOTE]
has anyone pit a boxter s against a lotus elise? that would be interesting
page 2 pwnt
A worthy search indeed. [I]I personally would not inlcude the Honda [/I]as it felt squirrelly when last driven by yours truly. The [U]Toyota MR-2 Spyder [/U]I owned ran rings around it from a handling standpoint - easier and more predictable to slide around a corner, and with a hundred less horses it felt faster. Go figure.
The [U]Lotus Elise [/U]is incredible - it stuck like glue and was very reassuring at the limit - although it does require your full attention. Top contender indeed.
The [U]Boxster[/U] was a pleasant surprise - I test drove a base 2007 Boxster and it was a pure joy - even correcting a purposely blown cornering maneuver with very efficient electronics. The engine in the base model, now equivalent to the old Boxster S's was fine, although the S version, which matches the 911's of a few years ago, is probably even more fun. The clutch was better, the chassis felt more sorted, and it bore no resemblance to an older Boxster I had driven and decided wasn't for me. Of course the [U]911 GT2 [/U]should be on this list. Sadly, I have only driven a 911 Carrerra, so I can only imagine.
So - the Boxster/Boxster S (2007) makes the short list. No doubt the Cayman as well. But why when you can have a roadster for less?
Cars like the [U]Ariel Atom and Capari T1 [/U]are no doubt towards the top of the heap but not everyday drivers - which the others listed are.
What you have to ask yourself - is - do I want a light car I can easily toss around(Louts, Toyota MR2, MX-5, etc.) or a heavier car that needs a ton of power to compensate for the weight. Yes the powerful heavy cars will go just as fast or faster, and may look okay on paper, but trust me you will feel the difference and it may bother you. It does me.
I have also driven the [U]EVO and STi [/U]and while they have great engines and are a kick to drive, their chassis just cannot compete with the Lotuses and Ferrari's of the world. Of the two, the original EVO has much faster turn-in and feels lighter. The STi has more low end grunt. AWD is great, but a purist generally favors a RWD car as they are easier to drift and break away more predictably. It is all about the feel. A good car is like a glove - a bad one is like an oversized mitten.
DO NOT buy a Mazdaspeed3 if you are all about the handling. Great engine - but friends don't let friends buy front-wheel drive sports cars, no matter how much the auto mags like the GTI or Mini's.
Torque steer is only part of the problem. Understeer is the real buzzkill on FWD cars.
Good luck on your search.
i'm assuming that the caparo will be up there once they got it working properly.
my choice would be the NSX. i wouldnt rule out the skyline either
I am also torn between which "best-handling" car i want. I'm looking to build a nice little car with exceptional handling which can be used on a near-daily basis.
I own a drag racing iroc with a supercharged 383, which is my nice beach day driver. I'm getting rid of my DAILY driver and want something as fun as my camaro, but with better handling and better fuel economy of course. I'd want to use this at the track near the city. So as listed, i figured my options were the mr2, miata, porsche cayman, porsche boxter, or lotus elise.
I've never driven these cars, let alone seen them much.
But here's the thing... is there much difference between the expensive cars "boxter, cayman, elise) and the cheap car "mr2, miata" other than looks and slight increase in power?
Considering I could get an mr2 or miata for 5-10 grand as compared to 25-55 grand for the others, I could spend the extra cash providing a better suspension setup for the mr2 or miata correct?
Hello, and welcome!
The answer, or so I've heard, is yes.
What is a Yamaha OX119?
[QUOTE=Kitdy;795909]What is a Yamaha OX119?[/QUOTE]
Yet another 90's supercar that didn't make it off the ground (;D).
[QUOTE=kingofthering;795920]Yet another 90's supercar that didn't make it off the ground (;D).[/QUOTE]
Google yielded nothing. The first result was this UCP thread.
Any info, pics or anything?
[QUOTE=Kitdy;795923]Google yielded nothing. The first result was this UCP thread.
Any info, pics or anything?[/QUOTE]
There you go.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_OX99-11]Yamaha OX99-11 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
Utmost respect for everyone who's posted, but for 'Quail's money, I'd give the MR2 a serious thought.
Sure, it looks like a piglet, but there's a strong argument to be made for its relevance as an Elise rival.
They've both got the same underwhelming engine, but one's considerably cheaper. I'd give both the Elise and the MR2 test drives, and then see if the undeniable driver involvement advantage of the Elise is worth the price of admission.
'Quail says it might not be.
There was a touge video of a modified MRS that destroyed a modified GTR, S15, and AE86, so I would agree the chassis has to be a contender
woooo, most people seem to lean towards the miata in other forums. Even on top gear, they do absolutely nothing but praise the miata video after video and seem neutral about the mr2. But what really just shut me out of the MR2... aftermarket parts... HOLY SHITE! Parts for that car are rare, and EXPENSIVE! The amount you'd spend tuning the suspension and engine in an MR2, you could build twice the car with a miata.
That's another thing that came to my mind after that research... if you'd spend the extra cash getting an Opel speedster or an elise which are nearly impossible to find, you'd have to spend a hell of a lot more for aftermarket parts as well. Insurance would be much more and from what I've read, the claims that the handling on the expensive Opels and Elises being better than the mr2 and miata are very questionable.
So here's a question, the better handling cars weigh:
Boxter/cayman =3100/2900 lb
miata=2500 lb
mr2=2200 lb
opel speedster and elise = under 2000lb
So, despite their weight differences, why do all these cars have matching performances around corners?
I'd personally go for the car you feel most at ease with and the one that's more fun. Who cares if it doesn't go as fast through the corners. It's not like you are going to take part in races, are you?
[QUOTE=whiteballz;795953]There was a touge video of a modified MRS that destroyed a modified GTR, S15, and AE86, so I would agree the chassis has to be a contender[/QUOTE]
You're basing your opinion on drifting? :D
Eh, you should test them all out. You never know which one you really like.
So the general consensus is that the best handling cars are MR?
[QUOTE=Kozy;796040]So the general consensus is that the best handling cars are MR?[/QUOTE]
Post #4 gives you the answer.
I personally prefer front engined rear wheel drive.
[QUOTE=HOTPROPHET;796025]woooo, most people seem to lean towards the miata in other forums. Even on top gear, they do absolutely nothing but praise the miata video after video and seem neutral about the mr2. But what really just shut me out of the MR2... aftermarket parts... HOLY SHITE! Parts for that car are rare, and EXPENSIVE! The amount you'd spend tuning the suspension and engine in an MR2, you could build twice the car with a miata.
That's another thing that came to my mind after that research... if you'd spend the extra cash getting an Opel speedster or an elise which are nearly impossible to find, you'd have to spend a hell of a lot more for aftermarket parts as well. Insurance would be much more and from what I've read, the claims that the handling on the expensive Opels and Elises being better than the mr2 and miata are very questionable.
[/QUOTE]
You could buy a Miata drivetrain + rear suspension to create a Locost, provided you have the know-how.
[QUOTE=NSXType-R;796036]You're basing your opinion on drifting? :D
Eh, you should test them all out. You never know which one you really like.[/QUOTE]
touge =/= drifting
Touge means hillpass or valley. This was a grip race not a drift touge.
[QUOTE=kingofthering;796055]You could buy a Miata drivetrain + rear suspension to create a Locost, provided you have the know-how.[/QUOTE]
Hey... I had no idea that could be done or that even existed. I saw Locost videos on youtube and to be honest, this is beyond interesting. My fav vehicle when it comes down to control and turning is the ariel atom, but considering it's cost, i can't go for it. Locosts, they're pretty much like a home built Atom or lotus 7, they can be built cheap, light, for drag or for cornering and people who own them are crazy about them.
My only prob with building one of these puppies would be proper welding. I can weld, but wow do i suck.
So, i'll study the building of a locost for now and make that a project in a few years from now. Maybe I'll take a welding course or get help with welding during that period. I can't get it out of my head now that I know about them.
So now, knowing that i can one day build a roadster that's a better handler than anything I can buy, i'll scratch off those cars that are impractical from my list: lotus elise, opel, MR2 and consider a used miata or a used porsche boxster.
I'd normally drop the boxster idea because they're harder to find and cost more for upkeep, but they have much more ponies than a miata and have better fuel economy.
Boxster: Nicer, probably more reliable, much more power, better fuel economy, and it's a Porsche!
miata: most likely a better handler due to less weight, much easier to find, cheaper parts and easier to come by.
hm, decisions.
if it's just a stop gap don't bother with the boxster, the mazda will do fine... just don't get too carried away with it :D
[QUOTE=HOTPROPHET;796387]My only prob with building one of these puppies would be proper welding. I can weld, but wow do i suck. [/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure even the most basic 7 kits come with frame welded together.
Hi everyone, been browsing this place over the last few days and thought Id use this thread as an excuse to stop lurking. :)
I currently drive a UKDM MK1 MX5, and I love it to death. Previous to this, Ive had a Stage 2 (circa 260bhp) Nissan 200SX RS13, and two MK1 Toyota MR2s. Whenever I look to buy a car, handling is always the key thing I look for. We make annual trips to Germanys Nurburgring every year so I need something I know isnt going to put me at a disadvantage to the people I go with (who drive a JDM DC2 IT-R and a 570bhp manual Supra).
I think my MX5 is pretty faultless when it comes to handling, and Id say a lot of that is to do with the FR layout, the incredible chassis (some of you Lotus Elan fans may recognise it), and the lack of power as stock. Its extremely grippy, forgiving, and easy to drive. Admittedly mine is now running fully adjustable coilovers, and while its fantastic on a track, its not much fun on rough UK roads. Again though, as standard it was fantastic.
Just thought Id chip another vote in for the MX5. :)
No doubt the MX-5 is a great handling car. Bu I think you are missing some serious contenders:
These are all very celebrated in their respective categories...
BMW M3 E30, 318is, 320is, M3 CS (E46) Any Porsche 997 or 996 (except the GT2), Boxster, Peugeot 205 GTi, 309 GTi, Clio Williams, Clio 182 Trophy, Honda NSX, Integra Type R, Civic Type R (not the new one) various Mitsu EVO's and Impreza's, Lotus Elan, Elise, Exige, Zonda F, Audi R8
But this is such an individual thing to talk about. An e39 523i handles excellent compared to an A6, A Clio 182 much better than a Stilo HGT and so on. I think it is very wrong to talk about the best handling car, regardless of any categorization, as there is not much sense in comparing an FF like Clio to an RR like a 911.
Which car handles better? The fastest 'round a track or the most involving on a curly B-road?
Well, I could talk about this forever...
Just my 5 cents
[QUOTE=mamagin;798114]No doubt the MX-5 is a great handling car. Bu I think you are missing some serious contenders[/quote]
Dont get me wrong, I dont think the MX5 is the best handling car ever, not by a fair way. But for the money, I think you'll struggle to find a car that can compete with it. Afterall, you can pick MX5s up very easily these days for under £1k...the cars youre classing it against, even at their lowest prices are often at least double, if not 22 times the price. Even the cars that are similarly priced from your list, either arent anywhere near as competitive, or you'd struggle to find one that hasnt been ragged to death no matter how much money you have.