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[QUOTE=KnifeEdge_2K1]dude quit talkin bout that, it doesnt present any advantage over the conventional system, atleast not by an amount which would affect performance, under acceleration on the 50/50 split some torque will still be sent to the rear if front is low on grip effectively giving it 50/50, and in corner entrance where front end grip is high less torque will be sent to the rear for stability, unless the new system changes the MAX amount of torque bias or rate of torque bias it wont affect the handling, unless the center dif is locked at 40/60 which is stupid[/QUOTE]
ok if that is going to make you happy
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4wd is the best especialy in the desert
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[QUOTE=MRR]Adaptable AWD could be the solution. A special system that could switch entirely to RWD, FWD, or AWD depending on the situation.[/QUOTE]
it's called ATTESSA, and is present in the noble M12, ferrari enzo, and nissan skyline. Although, not entirely a switcheroo thing, it diverts power all the way around using 4 electronically controlled limited-slips. It's witchcraft.
I vote MR. All the world's best sports cars use it, and my guess is that it's for a reason.
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[QUOTE=Godlaus]it's called ATTESSA, and is present in the noble M12, ferrari enzo, and nissan skyline. Although, not entirely a switcheroo thing, it diverts power all the way around using 4 electronically controlled limited-slips. It's witchcraft.
I vote MR. All the world's best sports cars use it, and my guess is that it's for a reason.[/QUOTE]
ok first you're soooo wrong, ferrari enzo doesnt have anything like that, they skyline's 4wd is painfully overated, if you're not gonna send power to the front wheels 90% of the time why the hell would you put an extra 2 diffs and axles in to do so? it just makes no sense
why the hell would you have 4 differentials
for the track or general performance driving MR makes the most sense but with all things considered FR or F AWD makes the most sense
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[QUOTE=KnifeEdge_2K1]all things considered FR or F AWD makes the most sense[/QUOTE]
Mid AWD is the 'best' for AWD to equal the corner weights and maximise the grip availabel to each wheel - assuming a torque sensing set of diffs then directs to the one with grip :)
Hence why the ultimate GroupB were that configuration.
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]Mid AWD is the 'best' for AWD to equal the corner weights and maximise the grip availabel to each wheel - assuming a torque sensing set of diffs then directs to the one with grip :)
Hence why the ultimate GroupB were that configuration.[/QUOTE]
true true, mid engined design is also good for its low polar moment of inertia, BUT when i said ALL things considered i meant, interior room, ease of fixing the damn thing, efficient use of space (in mid engined cars the part there's nothing under your bonnet, well except for the radiator in some cases and most of the time you end up with no back seats and no trunk/boot)
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[QUOTE=Godlaus]it's called ATTESSA, and is present in the noble M12, ferrari enzo, and nissan skyline. Although, not entirely a switcheroo thing, it diverts power all the way around using 4 electronically controlled limited-slips. It's witchcraft.
I vote MR. All the world's best sports cars use it, and my guess is that it's for a reason.[/QUOTE]
M12 is RWD along with the Enzo
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[QUOTE=KnifeEdge_2K1], they skyline's 4wd is painfully overated, if you're not gonna send power to the front wheels 90% of the time why the hell would you put an extra 2 diffs and axles in to do so? it just makes no sense
why the hell would you have 4 differentials
for the track or general performance driving MR makes the most sense but with all things considered FR or F AWD makes the most sense[/QUOTE]
i think the ATTSEA system is really good, if you call it overrated you're calling porsche's and lambo's AWD systems overrated as though all function the same way. when you're just travelling along and cornering normally, there is next to no torque going through the fronts, and i think in the skyline its none. but the moment you do a big launch and or corner fast, torque gets sent to the fronts, not 90% of time. go to racingflix.com and download Tiff Needels test of the R34 GTR. There are plenty of shots of the meter that shows the torque split and you see what he does to get power to the fronts, he's driving at 45 degrees to the direction of the road.
With a lot of RWD commuter cars today, they are made really understeery, so there goes FWDs advantage. Many AWD cars also have a huge FWD bias, and unless its raining or snwoing, how are they gonna help. Most come on in extreme conditions or handling problems, then your Average Joe doesn't know whats going on because their car is all of a sudden AWD and they can't control it. In a drag, AWD is good for getting you of the line, but in a rolling start, they get spanked by an equivalent RWD car.
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then why not have it 50:50 split default? you're making everythign MORE complex and heavy by giving it 0:100, and there's no point cuz when there is low traction you have to shift torque newayz, it makes no sense
and porsche's awd system is full time not like the skyline
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I'm guessing that if the Skyline AWD system was aloud in GT it would kick ass right?
I've allways noticed something different in the skyline cournering when accelarating, the tail steps out, i'm guessing the Drive management system diverts all power to the rear wheels to increase accelaration, and then starts to release that power to the front wheels, i'm also guessing it makes different arrangments to that power distribution if you are turning or in a straight line...
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[QUOTE=2ndclasscitizen]M12 is RWD along with the Enzo[/QUOTE]
yes, but it diverts power to prevent extreme understeer/oversteer.
[QUOTE]if you're not gonna send power to the front wheels 90% of the time why the hell would you put an extra 2 diffs and axles in to do so? it just makes no sense[/QUOTE]
Well, you want whatever percentage of power to the front wheels as the percentage of weight. The skyline, if you ask me, is underpowered, so in a straight, it would be best so start with a 30-70 split launch, and slowly increasing to a 70-30 split, as you want as much power to the lightest wheels without braking the 'traction point' (there's some real word for that, but I'm just going to use my own, cuz I don't remember it.)
90% of the time? not 100% of the power, but you're still going to use it for improved cornering.
If I'm wrong somewhere, please point it out, as I'm not basing my statements on facts, but rather what is logical.
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[QUOTE=Godlaus]yes, but it diverts power to prevent extreme understeer/oversteer.
Well, you want whatever percentage of power to the front wheels as the percentage of weight. The skyline, if you ask me, is underpowered, so in a straight, it would be best so start with a 30-70 split launch, and slowly increasing to a 70-30 split, as you want as much power to the lightest wheels without braking the 'traction point' (there's some real word for that, but I'm just going to use my own, cuz I don't remember it.)
90% of the time? not 100% of the power, but you're still going to use it for improved cornering.
If I'm wrong somewhere, please point it out, as I'm not basing my statements on facts, but rather what is logical.[/QUOTE]
no it doesnt dude where are you getting ur info?
no... you want the opposit of that in a corner to even out the forces on each tire, and the torque split wont affect acceleration unless a pair of wheels slip which wont happen unless all 4 slip because in almost all "performance" oriented awd systems the center is self locking (LSD) that is assuming the net torque is within the grip limits of the tyres
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[QUOTE=KnifeEdge_2K1]technically fwd is better then rwd in tight and slow corners since it has most of the weight over the front where as a rwd has verry little weight bias, the fwd car can handbrake turn without lowering the engine speed much and on some occasions doesnt require clutching in at all where as a rwd must (an awd may or may not be able to do this depending on the type of center dif), on slow corners the fwd can enter at a higher speed and just lift off for extra grip and lift off oversteer while if the rwd car were to try the same thing it'd spin
with all that said nothing can really be determined because not enough information is given (im assuming front engine in all my compars) the weight distribution, engine placement, weight of the car, type of tyres, suspensions, ect must all be taken into consideration but in general awd>rwd>fwd[/QUOTE]
Which has better performance is a bit ambiguous but the majority of racing cars , and certainly those built to a formula are RWD, so that must count for something?
As far as Im concerened having owned and driven all of them, rear wheel drive is the most fun and interactive.
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[QUOTE=crisis]Which has better performance is a bit ambiguous but the majority of racing cars , and certainly those built to a formula are RWD, so that must count for something?
As far as Im concerened having owned and driven all of them, rear wheel drive is the most fun and interactive.[/QUOTE]
They are RWD because of regulations. i'm sure if the regulations aloud it, they would all be AWD.
Ex: in ETCC Cars that are FWD can have sequential gear boxes and Cars that have RWD must have a manual gear box.. there's allways someone cuting legs in racing.
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[QUOTE=KnifeEdge_2K1]no it doesnt dude where are you getting ur info?[/QUOTE]
See my post above. What is logical, not on what I read. I didn't through out facts as the truth, I threw out opinions to see if I was right.
[QUOTE=KnifeEdge-2K1]no... you want the opposit of that in a corner to even out the forces on each tire, and the torque split wont affect acceleration unless a pair of wheels slip which wont happen unless all 4 slip because in almost all "performance" oriented awd systems the center is self locking (LSD) that is assuming the net torque is within the grip limits of the tyres[/QUOTE]
You want more power to the outside tires for better cornering.
Is it benefitful only 10% of the time? maybe, but that 10% is the difference between a loser and a winner.