Sad News.... F1 Fans

[r1ckst4]

MINARDI TAKES LEGAL ACTION

UPDATE: Minardi boss Paul Stoddart is set to take legal action to overturn a stewards' decision barring his team from taking part in the Australian GP with 2004-spec cars. Stoddart needed the unanimous agreement of the other nine teams but had been blocked by Ferrari and will now seek redress in the courts.

He said: "We had a very fair hearing from the stewards. With a heavy heart they've decided against us. I compliment the stewards on their fairness.

"But it leaves us now with only two options, one of which is to seek injunctive relief against the stewards' decision, not against this event, and the other to try and modify the car overnight.

"We are going to seek the legal remedy. We think we have prepared a watertight case. What I can say is that under no circumstances will we seek to disrupt this event in any shape or form."

Minardi does have an aerodynamic kit that conforms with the 2005 regulations available at Melbourne this weekend, but it is untested. The team will attempt to ready the cars with the new bodywork this evening in case it loses its court battle.


The unseemly saga over Minardi’s participation in the Australian GP rumbled on even as first practice got underway at Melbourne’s Albert Park circuit.

Paul Stoddart now concedes that he is unlikely to be able to find a way out of the impasse and his team may have to pack up and go home.

The sticking point appears to be that Ferrari will not withdraw its opposition to Minardi taking part until the team obtains a prior stamp of approval from governing body the FIA – a move which Stoddart regards as nothing more than political gamesmanship.

Speaking to reporters, Stoddart said: “Jean Todt told me he will not be signing a piece of paper from me at all, but that he would do so if it came officially from [FIA race director] Charlie Whiting. We are just a victim of political games.”

Stoddart vowed to continue lobbying his fellow team bosses in a last-ditch effort to secure a reprieve, but admitted his chances were “bad, really bad”.

Compounding Stoddart’s problems is the fact that FIA president Max Mosley does not appear to be sympathetic to his case.

In a press release issued by the FIA on Friday morning, Mosley said: “Paul has known about the new bodywork regulations since 6 September 2004; in fact, his team voted for them that day in common with all the other teams.

“We understand that he has the latest bodywork in Melbourne even if he has not yet tested it fully. We also understand that at least three teams would object to him running outside the regulations (which it is also our job to enforce).

“If he decides not to run, we think it unlikely that the Melbourne organisers will seek compensation from him.”

__________________________________________________ _________________

I hope Minardi will race this sunday... bloody Todt! likes being a pain in the ass...

[drakkie]

i really hope they get to drive...Cristijan Albers can use the opportunity to show off his talents !!!

[henk4]

Also Red Bull has openly spoken out against Minardi's participation.

[drakkie]

can they get points for this race ? if not, what do the other teams have to lose ?

[henk4]

Paul Stoddard has not done Ferrari any favours in the past.

Paul Stoddard knew the date when the car should be ready

What if next year Ron Dennis comes up with a similar reqeust. Ferrari does not want any precedents.

Let's stop fooling ourselves, F1 is a business, which is run by sharks, that will bite wherever they can. That is the nature of business. Trying to maintain that F1 is a sport is an uphill battle.

[fpv_gtho]

I think Minardi will be able to race, whether its cause they get the hacksaw to the 2004 car and their 2005 aero parts or cause of the legal mumbo jumbo, but in the case they couldnt, how would they fill the 20 car grid under the concorde agreement?

[Coventrysucks]

Originally Posted by henk4

Paul Stoddard has not done Ferrari any favours in the past.

Paul Stoddard knew the date when the car should be ready

What if next year Ron Dennis comes up with a similar reqeust. Ferrari does not want any precedents.

Ferrari are just being malicious in their decision, which will reflect really badly on them.

All weekend the media will probably be covering the fact that it is Ferrari blocking them. Even now that Red Bull are siding with Ferrari (I wonder who they want engines from next season?) the press focus will be on Ferrari.

If McLaren tried it on I would guess that no other teams would agree seeing as they are front runners who could genuinely win races on any performance advantage.

Minardi will be lucky if they finish ahead of Jordan with their old car, so there isn't really an issue there.

With the lack of money Minardi can't afford to build two cars, a 2004 evo and 2005 car. They had enough worries with the fact that their engine supplier buggered off out of the sport.

Maybe if Minardi were being paid $30 million to test on their own circuits, or recieved more money than anyone else from the FIA they wouldn't be in this situation...

[henk4]

Coventry, wake up this is not about sport. , this is business.

According to the latest rumours Ferrari has now given approval to the use of the 2004 model, but the stewards are now considering the car against the rules.

The following is a quote from a post on the F1m.com forum, dealing with the same subject.

Originally Posted by Scuderia

I think some of you guys are forgetting that ALL the teams bosses do what suits them 99% of the time. Stoddard wants to runs his 2004 cars because it suits HIM. He has had 6 months notice of the new rules and in fact has the correct 2005 body work in Melbourne, he would just prefer not to run it. So whether or not todt signs he is still able to race, and why should todt have to sign when he has had six months notice and has the correct body work. If he doesn't like the position he is in, then he shouldn't have put himself there in the first place. Ferrari were unlikely to sign because of what he had done to them.

What goes around comes around. Stoddard tried to bring in the reduced testing this year because it suited him. The other teams were also infavour because it suited them that bridgestone would have less testing compared to michelin. Honda, toyota bmw etc all wanted to test more, but it was more of an advantage to them if bridgestone couldn't test as much. It was nothing to do with cost cutting. This is backed up when you have a look at all the preseason testing and you will find ferrari are about 4th or 5th on the list in testing km travelled. Frank williams has said that he would have done exactly the same if he had a track right next to his factory (which he has tried to do). Then when ferrari didn't sign (because it suited them) the teams tried to say that it would mean that the british and french grandprix would be missed. Did this happen? It is all down to FOM and Ecclestone to decide the races and not ferrari.

Don't forget that about a year ago stoddard was lashing out at mclaren and bmw etc because they weren't providing them with cheap engines, and now they are all buddies. Ron, frank etc are only teaming up with stoddard because he has a loud mouth and their interests coincide.

Also if minardi don't race it won't be a break in the concorde agreement. All you have to do is turn up to scrutineering. Remember Arrows. You can also use Force Majeur. The cars have also just been rejected by the stewards as illegal

Ferrari signed up with eccelstone because he offered them a truck load of money. The GPWC was set up becasue the teams wanted more money from the promoter. The only reason the other teams haven't signed is that they want more money. Again it's all about what suits them.
It is also to be expected that ferrari would receive more money than some of the other teams. They are the biggest draw card and the only team to compete in every WC race. It is the same in many other areas. Big movie stars are paid more because the promoter knows that simply having there name will draw a bigger audience and make more money. Ecclestone is the promoter and all about making money. There are many good films without big movie stars, but they rarely do nearly as well at the box office. F1 is the same. F1 could survive without ferrari (and might be even better) but it would not draw as big an audience (and therefore make less money for the promoter). GPWC is all about getting the teams more money. If bernie offered the teams 100 million a year each, the GPWC would be gone tomorrow. Even if you don't like ferrari, they are still the star of F1.
Also, don't forget that ferrari bashing makes good headlines and exaggerated stories often sell better than the real story. I am a ferrari fan if you hadn't worked it out, but I still think my view are unbiased unlike some others. I also like minardi and stoddard and would like to see them race. Just get sick sometimes of stoddard being the little aussie battler and trying to get his agenda through and then getting annoyed if it doesn't happen.

[Cotterik]

Itv-f1 article:

Minardi will take part in Saturday's first qualifying session after its Australian owner Paul Stoddart secured a court injunction against the FIA's race stewards decision to exclude his team.

"We are in," Stoddart told Reuters. "We'll be running all day tomorrow and then we'll have to wait and see what happens."

Stoddart said the Victoria court had scheduled a second hearing at 14.15 local time to rule whether Minardi can participate in the race on Sunday.

Minardi was forced to miss free practice in Melbourne after Stoddart failed to get permission from all of the nine other teams to compete with 2004-spec cars.

After missing the sessions he vowed to take legal action.

He said: "We had a very fair hearing from the stewards. With a heavy heart they've decided against us. I compliment the stewards on their fairness.

"But it leaves us now with only two options, one of which is to seek injunctive relief against the stewards' decision, not against this event, and the other to try and modify the car overnight.

"We are going to seek the legal remedy. We think we have prepared a watertight case. What I can say is that under no circumstances will we seek to disrupt this event in any shape or form."

Minardi does have an aerodynamic kit that conforms with the 2005 regulations available at Melbourne this weekend, but it is untested. The team will attempt to ready the cars with the new bodywork this evening in case it loses its court battle.

The unseemly saga over Minardi’s participation in the Australian GP rumbled on even as first practice got underway at Melbourne’s Albert Park circuit.

Paul Stoddart now concedes that he is unlikely to be able to find a way out of the impasse and his team may have to pack up and go home.

The sticking point appears to be that Ferrari will not withdraw its opposition to Minardi taking part until the team obtains a prior stamp of approval from governing body the FIA – a move which Stoddart regards as nothing more than political gamesmanship.

Speaking to reporters, Stoddart said: “Jean Todt told me he will not be signing a piece of paper from me at all, but that he would do so if it came officially from [FIA race director] Charlie Whiting. We are just a victim of political games.”

Stoddart vowed to continue lobbying his fellow team bosses in a last-ditch effort to secure a reprieve, but admitted his chances were “bad, really bad”.

Compounding Stoddart’s problems is the fact that FIA president Max Mosley does not appear to be sympathetic to his case.

In a press release issued by the FIA on Friday morning, Mosley said: “Paul has known about the new bodywork regulations since 6 September 2004; in fact, his team voted for them that day in common with all the other teams.

“We understand that he has the latest bodywork in Melbourne even if he has not yet tested it fully. We also understand that at least three teams would object to him running outside the regulations (which it is also our job to enforce).

“If he decides not to run, we think it unlikely that the Melbourne organisers will seek compensation from him.”

[Quiggs]

So basically, they want to run an illegal car. But they have parts to make it legal on hand. How is this Ferrari's fault? And why are the other teams not against this? Put the legal bodywork on, they've had these rules for half a year, they should have been prepared.

[Cotterik]

Originally Posted by Quiggs

So basically, they want to run an illegal car. But they have parts to make it legal on hand. How is this Ferrari's fault? And why are the other teams not against this? Put the legal bodywork on, they've had these rules for half a year, they should have been prepared.

Ferrari are one of the teams appealing against minardi using a 2004 spec car, which doesnt follow the 2005 regulations. Yes, they shouldve been prepared, but remember teams like ferrari have 200+ million behind them to spend, minardi only have a tight budget of around 20 million, so it is much harder for them to keep up with the new regulations and build new parts or even a new car as fast as everyone else in the paddock.

[RacingManiac]

Originally Posted by CoTTerik

Ferrari are one of the teams appealing against minardi using a 2004 spec car, which doesnt follow the 2005 regulations. Yes, they shouldve been prepared, but remember teams like ferrari have 200+ million behind them to spend, minardi only have a tight budget of around 20 million, so it is much harder for them to keep up with the new regulations and build new parts or even a new car as fast as everyone else in the paddock.

The first team to have a 2005 car up and running is Jordan.....so I don't think money is it.

There is no rule that saves you from making a slow car. It is not a valid excuse at all to say "We have a 2005 car, but its too slow so I'd much rather want to run a 2004 car....and if you don't let me I'll sue you!" How does that make any sense. Would this situation be any different if today it was the BAR or the McLaren saying something like that?

[SlickHolden]

Not a good thing for the Aussie guy in his home town. they will race.

[Coventrysucks]

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

There is no rule that saves you from making a slow car. It is not a valid excuse at all to say "We have a 2005 car, but its too slow so I'd much rather want to run a 2004 car....and if you don't let me I'll sue you!" How does that make any sense. Would this situation be any different if today it was the BAR or the McLaren saying something like that?

That isn't the issue at all.

Minardi's 2005 car isn't as yet fully complete. There was no point spending large quantities of money fixing up the 2004 car to 2005 standard for one or two races.

In previous years when Ferrari or McLaren have felt that their new car will not be fast enough they ran revised cars from the previous year.

Minardi don't have the facilities to revise their car.
The only major changes are aero - and if the wings developed for the 2005 car don't fit onto the 2004 chassis there isn't much that can be done.

The front wing alone generates 560kg of downforce at 300km/h - if they were to bodge it on and it failed during the race there could be fatal consequences, so obviously it is out of the question.

Not that I think Minardi are completely blameless, but they should be allowed to run. Even if they are not allowed to score points.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Coventrysucks

Not that I think Minardi are completely blameless, but they should be allowed to run. Even if they are not allowed to score points.

I tihnk the problem with all of this is the uncertainty of ALL the motives of those involved.
Stoddard CLEARLY needs to make a good show "on home ground" and it' blatantly obviosu the 2005 aero package they've built is too late and not up to scratch.
The problem in letting them run the 2004 aero on the 2005 tyres is nobody can be sure of the effeect. I'm betting Stoddart does. So it is POSSIBLE that it turns out to be a MUCH faster car. So Stoddard gets plenty of TV coverage, plenty of press and his drivers are mixing with the big guys and that will help attract sponsors for the next set of races ( minor sponsors have been coming and going for races for a few seasons now )

And the "no points" stuff is way too dangeroous to fly. Not from safety, but from points. Say they are running 6 places higher than they woudl have, tTHEN there are cars trying to overtake them that woudl NOT ahve to if Minadi ran the 2005 package. in overtaking waht if the other driver overcooks it and spins out. Lost points - ONLY because they were having to overtake a car that woudl never have been in that posisiton if the laws were upheld. AND lets imagine that they're STILL the slowest cars out there, THEN there is the problem of overtaking, in and out of pits again it coudl affect the race results for individual drivers and teams.

Nope. He didnt get the car to 2005 aero spec. So the car HAS to run 2005 spec for me or NOT at all.

THIS is a differnet case from previosu years and teasm running "old" cars. There were never MAJOR aero and tyre changes AND they were running mods, but mods that were still within legal for the season.