In Court today :: FIA vs BAR-Honda

[Quiggs]

Had this been Ferrari stretching the rules, you'd all be starting a lynch mob to ban them. BAR broke the rules, and must suffer whatever consequences are stipulated by the rulebook.

[Nick]

if this really is the case i find it a real shame cause i found it a team that really had potential for this season and onwards. I dont understand how such a team would actually do this. but if it is true then, yes they should be punished for it. i think its just going to be a shame for the rest of the season cause they did serve good competition with the other top teams.

[ScionDriver]

Dude So LAME!! I mean come on, for just one penelty (Which supposidly they can disprove) they get chucked out for all of '05 that is stupid and wrong!!

[Wouter Melissen]

Originally Posted by ScionDriver

Dude So LAME!! I mean come on, for just one penelty (Which supposidly they can disprove) they get chucked out for all of '05 that is stupid and wrong!!

Cheating is cheating. In the normal world it can also be severely punished.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by ScionDriver

Dude So LAME!! I mean come on, for just one penelty (Which supposidly they can disprove) they get chucked out for all of '05 that is stupid and wrong!!

You dont' know how many other times they broke the rules.

The "new" FIA takes the view that if you're caught cheating then the assumption is you've always been cheating. They had to do SOMETHING to make sure folks stopped "pushing the envelope" of legality ( :cough: FERRARI :cough: )

Teams know the consequences of the rules. IF they're found guilty there can be NO DEBATE over whether a ban is right or not.

[ScionDriver]

I understand where they are coming from, but I like BAR a lot I would hate to see them get booted out and have to accept that they cheated.

*EDIT* Who makes the call anyway? An independant jury or like an FIA appointed jury? if its the latter they don't stand much of a chance, do they?

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by ScionDriver

I understand where they are coming from, but I like BAR a lot I would hate to see them get booted out and have to accept that they cheated.

*EDIT* Who makes the call anyway? An independant jury or like an FIA appointed jury? if its the latter they don't stand much of a chance, do they?

The court they are meeting in IS an arbitration court. It is NOT the FIA, but how much of Bernies'hand will be at play I woudlnt' like to say

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press...040505-01.html

[johnnyperl]

Originally Posted by labomba

"The team set out deliberately to gain an illegitimate and unfair advantage over other teams, an act prejudicial to the interests of the competition and to the interests of motor sports generally," the FIA said.

for those who think this is too harsh, the issue seems to be intent. teams constantly break the rules and are caught but in this case the car was designed in the begining to be unlawful. In an earlier thread, before the extra tank was diclosed, i was arguing for BAR to get the points. but now i agree with the punishment.

The best part is that theyre best was only third

on the issue of ferrari, one could say their cooperation with bridgestone was unfair, but not "illegitimate".

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

Originally Posted by henk4

There has been the Tyrrell case in the past (1983?) when the car was clearly below the minimum weight (it was the only car still running a normally aspirated Cosworth while the others all had turbo engines), to compensate for this, during the last refuelling the tank was partly filled up with leaden balls. They got caught, lost all their points and got a season ban.

i never understood that, how do the balls help? why not just add more fuel

is it the lead gets diluted in the fuel giving a higher octane rating?

[my porsche]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

( :cough: FERRARI :cough: )

im glad someone's been taking ferrari down a peg this season (renault) they deserve it and maybe this will bring the excitement back to F1

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by KnifeEdge_2K1

i never understood that, how do the balls help? why not just add more fuel

is it the lead gets diluted in the fuel giving a higher octane rating?

No, the team was underweight so on the last tank they put lead balls to add about 4-5 kg to be o.k. for weight testing.

[aNOBLEman]

Could this be a result of BAR not performing up to expectations?

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

No, the team was underweight so on the last tank they put lead balls to add about 4-5 kg to be o.k. for weight testing.

I think the point he was getting at was if the cars like 20kg underweight, why stick 8L of fuel and 15Kg of lead in when you can just stick 30L of fuel in

[henk4]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

I think the point he was getting at was if the cars like 20kg underweight, why stick 8L of fuel and 15Kg of lead in when you can just stick 30L of fuel in

because 20 kg of leaden balls will take up far less place than 20 kg of fuel (check on specific gravity for fuel (0.7) and lead (which I forgot) At the end the car will be weighted without liquids, and they probably put a filter at the bottom of the tank to prevent the balls from coming out as well.

[fpv_gtho]

Well that provides the logic behind it then i suppose

Maybe the rattle in the fuel tank was a bit of a giveaway