The Best Race car Driver ever

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

jackie ickx mmmm, ive heard his name somewhere before, was he one of the co drivers in ford's 1-2 finish of the 77 bathurst?

Jackie Ichx sure was he competed in the australian endurance events for a while there as Allan Moffat preferd european drivers.
Schumacher is reputed to be a true asshole and mark webber in an interview said he no longer worships him saying while he is a fantastic driver hes just not as good as i labeled him when i was younger. (on a side note i come from mark webbers Hometown and while i dont know mark i know his father and often spin yearn with him in his used car dealership)
As for my faveorite driver id have to say glenn seton a natural tallent in a family that has been raceing since the late 50s he has raced in australia,NZ and japan and has done very well in all catigorys he has been in (of course some years better then others) As far as drivers you might recognise Allan Jones winner of f1 one year and a great australian...used to mange Glenn Setons succsessful Nissan and then later ford team untill the early 90s and also was his co driver for many years to come.
My old man reckons some drivers worthy of mentioning are A.J Foyt ,Fangio ,Jack Brabbam (another aussie) and richard Petty i also think Bruce McLarren (NZ) is worth mentioning too.

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Schumacher is reputed to be a true asshole and mark webber in an interview said he no longer worships him saying while he is a fantastic driver hes just not as good as i labeled him when i was younger. (on a side note i come from mark webbers Hometown and while i dont know mark i know his father and often spin yearn with him in his used car dealership)

man it must be going off in canberra, one minute your at the summernats, the next your talking to mark webber's dad

sounds like a typical mark skaife description though, although some people are breaking the mould saying hes not as bad as he's labelled, but i think i'll be the judge of that one

i recall certain comments about shumacher, like people sayng hes annoying to work with and leaves everything up to the engineers, that sort of stuff. complete contrast to webber who ive heard many a time is one of the easiest to get along with, and is always talking to the engineers about how to get more speed out of the car etc

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by DasModell

one of the reasons Schumacher only does F1 . is because F1 changed .. it is not what it used to be .. it's not the 60's ..or the 70's ... to be succesuful in F1 . you must focus on f1 .. it's not like it's schumacher not doing other formulas .... no F1 driver does anything else .. no rally driver does anything else ... only Rossi did a little rallying after the season ... that the way motorsport is today .

Yep, that's what I said.
and that's why he can only be promoted into the 'best' when he's out and proven himself a good team player and driver in other formulae.
Colin McCrae has always been tagged as a great driver and he HAS gone and tried saloon racing - a one off admittedlay - where he drove an excellent race and his latest Dakar outing has shonw him to still be committed to winning and doing everything he can to finish.
So to re-iterate what I've said in earlier posts, WHEN Schumi shows promise in other types of racing we can revisit the best ever.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

An over-rated driver.
He's not expanded his racing beyond karts and F1.
Let's see him in rallies ( the Swedish outing may lead to something ) and sportscars - Le Mans.
he MAKES a team work for HIM.
For me that lessons his overal rating.
A great driver but a long way from an all-round best.
( I class Senna the same )

Has it fled your mind that Schumacher was a member of the Mercedes works team running the Saubers in the early nineties?

It is also a matter of money that modern F1 drivers do not venture out into other classes. They earn enough and don't need any additional income. Also I don't think Ferrari would be particularly happy if MS got hurt say during his participation in the Rallye of Germany. I am almost sure that his contract stipulates exactly what and where he may drive. Therefore it is a tat unfair to accuse him of being an F1 driver only and not having shown any versatility. It's modern F1 that prevents drivers (Senna, Prost, Lauda) to show their talents in all aspects. The BMW M1 procar series could have given a bit more insight, but it's hardly imaginable that such initiative would currently meet any fertile ground.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by henk4

Has it fled your mind that Schumacher was a member of the Mercedes works team running the Saubers in the early nineties?

It is also a matter of money that modern F1 drivers do not venture out into other classes. They earn enough and don't need any additional income. Also I don't think Ferrari would be particularly happy if MS got hurt say during his participation in the Rallye of Germany. I am almost sure that his contract stipulates exactly what and where he may drive. Therefore it is a tat unfair to accuse him of being an F1 driver only and not having shown any versatility. It's modern F1 that prevents drivers (Senna, Prost, Lauda) to show their talents in all aspects. The BMW M1 procar series could have given a bit more insight, but it's hardly imaginable that such initiative would currently meet any fertile ground.

GUYS !

The reaons why todays drivers/riders in any formaula are restricted are well understood.
I am only saying that when you have one driver who has excelled in many formalas in their career and are the equal of a person in one formala, then surely the one with the wider proven skills is the 'best' ?
I'm not blaming Schumacher. OR accusing him. It's as much driven by sponsors who demand their drivers to do lots of hospitality when not racing.

BUT, until he demonstrates that wider experience I don't think you can say he is better than Clark or Fangio or Nuvolari or etc etc

[henk4]

Very well, but if modern drivers have no opportunity to excel in more than one formula then by definition only the "older" drivers are eligible for the "best driver" title. That is if we assume that F1 is the pinnacle class in motor racing, of which I am actually not so sure, given that the relative inexperience of a driver like Raikonen has not prevented him reaching the F1 top very quickly.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by henk4

relative inexperience of a driver like Raikonen has not prevented him reaching the F1 top very quickly.

QED !!
There's the definitve proof why it can't be based on succes on one formula

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

QED !!
There's the definitve proof why it can't be based on succes on one formula

In which case I would go a step further and vote for John Surtees, still the only world champion on two and four wheels.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by henk4

In which case I would go a step further and vote for John Surtees, still the only world champion on two and four wheels.

Who would have been possibly equalled by Mike Hailwood ( Mike the Bike ! ) had he not crushed his leg in F1 accident.
Another great hero of the Isle of Man TT race as he came back 4 years later and won thte TT again.

I'm tempted to add that any modern driver/rider should be measured by the ability to race on the island. No possiblity to drive at 100% as their is NO leaway. An error will certainly end in an accident and injury. It makes a driver balance risk and speed as nowhere else on the world.
The shame is the politically correct brigade may be getting their way and it's future is uncertain.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

The shame is the politically correct brigade may be getting their way

which also killed the Nurburgring and the old Spa circuit, but not in the least thanks to the efforts of Jackie Stewart.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by henk4

which also killed the Nurburgring and the old Spa circuit, but not in the least thanks to the efforts of Jackie Stewart.

Well back then it was dangerous and could take a LONG time to get safety vehicles and marshals to any incident.
Today with helicopters it's (slightly) easier.
I think motorsport is losing the plot in not realising that part of the skill in driving fast is knowing the limits of yourself.
F1 makes the tracks safer and then limits the cars to try to reduce accidents.
I wonder if it would be better to make the tracks difficult ( change camber and curves ) and have the drivers realise that things can go wrong.
eg On Mulsanne, did the thought that the car may flip make Le Mans drivers more careful ??

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

I think motorsport is losing the plot in not realising that part of the skill in driving fast is knowing the limits of yourself.

with the inevitable risk of casualties which are not considered to be socially acceptable, certainly not if the event is on worldwide TV. This is the paradox of motorsport, and actually of participating in day to day traffic, but to a lesser extent.

[Smokescreen]

One of the best out there today has to be Tony Stewart. The man was born to race. At the 24 hour in Daytona, he nearly won there, but didn't because of mechanical problems. He had never raced an Enduro or a DP car before. He has said he wants to do F1 in a few years, but has commitments to NASCAR now, and last year he was allowed to practice in an F1 car and his track times after a few hours with it were up with Schumi and Montoya.

[Matra et Alpine]

Originally Posted by Smokescreen

practice in an F1 car and his track times after a few hours with it were up with Schumi and Montoya.

Always take practise track times with a huge pinch of salt.
Often an agent will negotiate that a driver gets to do public times in a car with minimal fuel and the best tyres and setup.
Whereas on the same day the main cars may be running full loads or testing new parts.
It's a shame, but business will drive the results in F1 for the forseeable future.
Hopefully he'll get a chance to join the fast boys

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

man it must be going off in canberra, one minute your at the summernats, the next your talking to mark webber's dad

sounds like a typical mark skaife description though, although some people are breaking the mould saying hes not as bad as he's labelled, but i think i'll be the judge of that one

i recall certain comments about shumacher, like people sayng hes annoying to work with and leaves everything up to the engineers, that sort of stuff. complete contrast to webber who ive heard many a time is one of the easiest to get along with, and is always talking to the engineers about how to get more speed out of the car etc

Well webbers old man owns a joint out in queanbeyan and i met him purely by chance while inquiring about a series II rx7 good bloke too.
http://www.f1i.com/articles/ARTICLE_538910.html well i bet you skaife never done that...this articleverifys hes an asshole off the track. A lot of the drivers dislike f1 everythings a secret non one likes anyone thats why the likes of max wilson,allan jones and alot of cart and indy drivers love the sport so much its open its happy no teams specificly make stabs at eachother and there is no huge issue over polatics in the sports they are now in.