Illegal V8 Supercar testing

[Daz27]

Internet alleges illegal V8 test
By Ray Kershler
19jul06
V8 SUPERCAR racing has been rocked by allegations of illegal testing against a top team.

The claims, which surfaced on an internet chat room site last week, are now the talk of the sport.

Individual V8 Supercar teams are allowed only six individual test days a year at designated tracks to ensure a fair balance between teams.

As such, illegal testing is regarded as the most heinous crime in the sport.

In the only verified case, in 2004, the Adelaide-based Team Dynamik was fined $132,000 and virtually banished from the sport after allegations they had tested illegally at Woomera rocket range.

The chat room allegations are not specific about which of the 17 V8 Supercar teams is involved in the latest allegations.

However several V8 teams acknowledge the team in question is identifiable because of information included in the chat room site.

The chat room allegations suggest the team has tested illegally several times in the off-season and during the current season.

Illegal testing is a hard allegation for V8 Supercar officials to prove, as teams have to be caught in the act. Insiders say the stringent penalties available to the sport - and the public ramifications and shame - are the best safeguard, virtually precluding any such dirty tricks.

In the Team Dynamik case, V8 officials were tipped off and drove to Woomera to catch the team in the act, taking photos as evidence, but officials later admitted they got lucky.

Kelvin O'Reilly, the general manager of TEGA which represents and polices the V8 Supercar teams in the sport, said yesterday that he was aware of the current web allegations.

"If we had evidence to support the allegations they would be treated just as seriously, if not more so, than the breaches which occurred at Woomera two years ago," O'Reilly said.

"But unless we have got some incontrovertible evidence it occurs, how do you prosecute?.

"If credible witnesses were to come forward to give us something to build a case with then we would not hesitate.

"But I can't go on speculation of anonymous people."


Thanks to the NT News...


Anyone heard anything about this and who the mystery team could be???

[fpv_gtho]

Theres a thread on ten-tenths about it. Nothing confirmed, but alot alluded to. Supposedly the suspect team is FPR, who have taken advantage of the high security of Fords testing grounds at You-Yangs throughout the offseason, and current season so far to test their cars. From some of the responses, it seems its been something known for a while now.

Makes some sense, FPR have found alot of performance out of nowhere, but it would take alot to get away with it. People still saw the VE at Lang Lang, which Holden didnt want them to.

Whats also possible though is FPR are simply running stripped out 1355kg, 620hp 5L OHV Falcons around You Yangs, and not actually a V8 Supercar.

Needless to say, the handful of media releases about this havent come from FPR, VESA or anyone official for that matter. Just someone who wouldve seen the thread on ten-tenths and tried to make a bit of noise about it.

[Daz27]

yeah I found my way to that thread a while ago. if a v8 SC isnt registered ya can flog it around 24/7 anyways, i bet they all do it.

[fpv_gtho]

You can but you cant use some of the componentry, namely the tyres. Team Dynamik when they were caught were fined for illegal testing of the cars, tyres, ECU and a couple of other things. You can replace all those parts on something that isnt registered as a V8 Supercar, but it just restricts your feedback, and the rest of the feedback wont be 100% accurate. Still possible though.

[Daz27]

Why cant u use the ECU? Whats sopping these guys testing their new cars BEFORE they're a registered supercar using all the componentry... even the tyres. They have a bank of tyres dont they? Whats stopping them from using the near rooted ones? Hell I would if I had a team.

Id bend every single rule to breaking point, and if that includes testing non-registered future or former V8 supercars or any other category with restrictions for that matter, then Id be doing it for as long as theres enough money for the fuel lol.

[fpv_gtho]

All that stuff is still part of the V8 technical regs. If you remember when Team Dynamik were caught, they were done on about 4-5 seperate cases of cheating. They were done for tyres, car, ECU, i think maybe driveline. Basically the car plus all the control componentry.

The car i think they can get away with if its not registered, but all that control stuff i think doesnt have that luxury. Maybe rather than use the particular spec Motec they have to use to compete, use a lower spec unit or something. Then maybe for the gearbox, rather than use the Holinger H6, maybe go with the sequential version, or one of the other 6 speed boxes Holinger sells. If they were really cheap they could stick in a T56 i suppose. Getting a locked diff isnt hard at all either.

Tyres would be the hardest. I dont know if they could get a hold of some old Bridgestones from a few years ago, or go with something custom made, or something off the shelf available to anyone. That though would realistically be the biggest hurdle. But if theyre only road testing engine componentry, they could do that in an unmarked normal Falcon now couldnt they...

Its been brought up also that SBR had a normal Falcon with the V8 driveline setup so that Ambrose could practice his starts. If you remember when SBR were caught for the illegal ECU loom, Ambrose thanked someone over the radio for his great start. It sounded suspiciously like they were running something funny in the electrics, but Ambrose claimed he was thanking someone who gave him a hand improving his starts.

[Daz27]

Ok, so if I bought an ex stones/888/whatever falcon supertaxi, with all components except tyres, I cant run it as a sports sedan?

[fpv_gtho]

Thats the impression im getting from other discussions. Of course you would need to re register it as a sports sedan, but it seems they can only get you for illegally testing a V8 Supercar if youre driving a race car registered as a V8 Supercar.

[Daz27]

Y register it as anything? why not take it to the track on a club day, they have 'come and try's' all the time, last time I went out on track was at a come and try day cos I was bored, I was driving with HSV commo's, Grp c copies, HQ racers, the whole bit, there was even a superkart at one stage that day. You just run what u bring, as long as its safe. No one gives a toss.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Originally Posted by fpv_gtho

Its been brought up also that SBR had a normal Falcon with the V8 driveline setup so that Ambrose could practice his starts. If you remember when SBR were caught for the illegal ECU loom, Ambrose thanked someone over the radio for his great start. It sounded suspiciously like they were running something funny in the electrics, but Ambrose claimed he was thanking someone who gave him a hand improving his starts.

I remember that, he said he'd wrecked 3 road car clutches practicing.

Originally Posted by Daz27

Ok, so if I bought an ex stones/888/whatever falcon supertaxi, with all components except tyres, I cant run it as a sports sedan?

There are a few series' around that run old V8 Suerpcars in them IIRC, can't think of any of them off the top of my head, but I imagine you'd be required to take out an data loggers.

[blackhonda]

A couple of things that might help. A Supercar is indentified by it's CAMS logbook, so if it isn't logbooked, it isn't one....yet. So that might clear up the grey-area with people testing cars that to all intents and purposes are V8 Supercars...I guess it's one of those things where people read the fine print very hard to gain an advantage. The second fact could be that if you don't have a Supercar Franchise, then you aren't bound by the testing regs as such, but clearly that is not the case with FPR. What teams could do is build a car, not logbook it as a V8, have someone(not directly linked to them) test it and it would probably be within the letter of the regs if not the spirit. On the tyre issue, I am pretty sure that Dunlop bar-code their stock, so they know who got what, and I am pretty sure that old stock has to be returned so as to not allow teams to have a stockpile of old rubber to test on, and also to prevent any other tyre manufacturers gaining any technical insights into Dunlops product. As I think fvp-gtho said, testing without all of the parts of a fully-functioning current spec car would not give you all the answers that you might be looking for. With modern engine dynos, 6 post suspension rigs (which teams do have access to, even if they have to go overseas)...the only thing I think that anyone would be testing at You-yangs would possibly be aero?....because there are no full size-wind tunnels in this country. Just a few thoughts that came to mind anyway

[Daz27]

Yeah, but even though the tyres are bar-codded, the teams still have a bank of X amount of tyres to test on. Whats stopping them from chuckin a set on the 'New' car and heading out to X or Y facility and blasting around? Surely there would be a course set up there somewhere to test various suspension geometry or engine/driveline developments.
While its still fresh, who in here WOULDN'T bend rules like this if they were in charge of a team?? How do you set up a poll???


Edit... also as a side point, Ive seen it mentioned that Dunlop keep all their old tyres for fear of them being copied etc by other tyre companies... what a load of crap, how much did Ingals burnout tyres from PI last year go for on Ebay???

[fpv_gtho]

Youre completely missing the point. As long as they use the Dunlops theyre breaking the rules. If they go out and get something else, theyre just bending the rules or going against the spirit of the rules.

[Daz27]

Youre missing the point FPV... ITS NOT CHEATING UNTIL YOU GET CAUGHT. Dont be so bloody naive.

[fpv_gtho]

Daz why would they go out with either a rigged car thats been modified not to be a V8 Supercar anymore, or one thats not recognised by VESA and CAMS as one yet, if theyre still going to put themselves in the firing line by using the Dunlops? Theyre either going to go out 100% with the race engines, tyres, ECU's, cars...the whole lot, or they wont do any of it and make sure if they get caught, theres nothing they can get caught with.

You dont see a bunch of robbers going into a bank with ski masks but still calling each other by their names, not unless theyre bloody stupid or want to get caught.