Russian motorsport history

[faksta]

Originally Posted by IRAO

Hi Artem, I also know who U are

My book is ready, here is the info:

Êíèãà Àâòîìîáèëè Ðîññèéñêîé Èìïåðèè - Êèðèëåö Ñòàíèñëàâ — ÖÀÑÊ

Also U can found my new publications, under Pousanoiff, Drewitzki, Beckel, Beljajeff and others, here:

Ïóáëèêàöèè Êèðèëüöà Ñòàíèñëàâà — ÖÀÑÊ

Starley Russia Ltd maked no tricycles and cars license Clement !!!
Your picture of Benz car from Lawrentjeff is no correct. It was Benz Victora Vis-A-Vis!!!

Eh..nope, my name's not Artem I doubt you know me, TBH
And yes, I've seen your publications, thanks. They're really interesting.

[dilettante]

Hi everyone,

I just find this very instructive thread. Great stuff, thanks for it!
I'm interesting about early racing in Europe and US... and now in Russia, not so well know.

I have a little question about Basil Soldatenkoff:
Is it the same man that run the "Grand Prix de France", held on august 5, 1913 at Le Mans (DNF) on a Brasier car, and finish third at the "Targa Florio" 1911 with a Mercedes?

Regards
Jyl

[faksta]

Welcome, Jyl.
Thank you for your interest. To be absolutely honest, I'm unfamiliar with Soldatenkoff's 1913 Le Mans result, but yes, it' him who came 3rd in 1911 Targa Florio driving a Mercedes car.

Can I post a question to you either? Since you're interested in early European racing, maybe you know where to find more or less quality photos of a Bignan 11hp Desmo Sport, which came 3rd in 1923 Le Mans and a Vinot Deguingant BP 10hp which finished 26th the same race?

[dilettante]

Originally Posted by faksta

(...) To be absolutely honest, I'm unfamiliar with Soldatenkoff's 1913 Le Mans result, but yes, it' him who came 3rd in 1911 Targa Florio driving a Mercedes car.

You can read the results of the "GP de France" HERE.
There is a driver name "Zoltan Soldatenkov" (in the DNF results), and I wonder if it's the same ? (with a bad spelling...)

Originally Posted by faksta

(...) Since you're interested in early European racing, maybe you know where to find more or less quality photos of a Bignan 11hp Desmo Sport, which came 3rd in 1923 Le Mans and a Vinot Deguingant BP 10hp which finished 26th the same race?

You're talking about the first 24 hours of Le Mans... My favorite race, I was born in Le Mans !
Here is what I got in my DB.

The Bignan


The Vinot Deguingand (with a "d", not a "t" ) of the Molon brothers.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by dilettante

My favorite race, I was born in Le Mans !

you should be there today then
anyway, thanks for those pictures, of cars that I had never heard of before. Did the Bignon really have a desmoodromic valve train?

[Rockefella]

Originally Posted by faksta

Welcome, Jyl.
Thank you for your interest. To be absolutely honest, I'm unfamiliar with Soldatenkoff's 1913 Le Mans result, but yes, it' him who came 3rd in 1911 Targa Florio driving a Mercedes car.

I thought Le Mans wasn't initially run until the 1920's.. 1923 I think it was?

[faksta]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

I thought Le Mans wasn't initially run until the 1920's.. 1923 I think it was?

It's when the 24 hour race started, the track was built earlier

Originally Posted by dilettante

You can read the results of the "GP de France" HERE.
There is a driver name "Zoltan Soldatenkov" (in the DNF results), and I wonder if it's the same ? (with a bad spelling...)

Ahh..I doubt it's a mistake - Zoltan is a common Hungarian name. Maybe it's his far relative, I'll try to find something, but it's not so easy, so I won't promise a good result yet.
Thanks for photos

[dilettante]

Originally Posted by Rockefella

I thought Le Mans wasn't initially run until the 1920's.. 1923 I think it was?

You're right for the 24 hours, but before, Le Mans was a race place since 1906 ! (on different road tracks)

The first American victory in Europe was at Le Mans in 1921: Jimmy Murphy and this Duesenberg in the "Grand Prix de l'A.C.F." !
(on the same track where the 24hrs will be organized two years later...)

[dilettante]

Originally Posted by henk4

(...) Did the Bignon really have a desmoodromic valve train?

Absolutly. This car, with a 1979 cm3 engine, 4 cyl., 16 valves, first appear at the "Grand Prix de Tourisme de Strasbourg" (France) in 1921. But did not finished because it was not "fine-tunning".
The first succes was in "GP de Belgique" in Spa (Belgium) where it defeat Minerva and Chenard & Walker.

In the 24hrs 1923 the Bignan "Desmo" finished 3rd and win his class (1501 to 2000 cm3, made 2071,440 km at 86,31 km/h).

Sorry, I'm afraid I'm off-board about the thread...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by dilettante

Absolutly. This car, with a 1979 cm3 engine, 4 cyl., 16 valves, first appear at the "Grand Prix de Tourisme de Strasbourg" (France) in 1921. But did not finished because it was not "fine-tunning".
The first succes was in "GP de Belgique" in Spa (Belgium) where it defeat Minerva and Chenard & Walker.

In the 24hrs 1923 the Bignan "Desmo" finished 3rd and win his class (1501 to 2000 cm3, made 2071,440 km at 86,31 km/h).

Sorry, I'm afraid I'm off-board about the thread...

never mind that, it is an internet forum
any Bignon still around anywhere?

[faksta]

Originally Posted by henk4

never mind that, it is an internet forum
any Bignon still around anywhere?

I have a picture of a Bignan 2-Liter car from 1923 (maybe a copy, though) either in museum or during some exhibition. Will post it in classic cars section when I'll get an access to another computer

Found nothing on Zoltan Soldatenkov The only ones I could find with this name mentioned are the same as you, Jyl, provided - the results of 1913 Le Mans race, gonna be all from the same source.

[dilettante]

Originally Posted by henk4

(...) any Bignon still around anywhere?

I don't known... may be in some museum.
The Bignan (not "Bignon" ) exist from 1918 to 1931.
Here is the logotype.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by dilettante

I don't known... may be in some museum.
The Bignan (not "Bignon" ) exist from 1918 to 1931.
Here is the logotype.

would make a nice entry for the upcoming Le Mans Classic. I am sure you will be there....

[dilettante]

Originally Posted by faksta

(...) Found nothing on Zoltan Soldatenkov The only ones I could find with this name mentioned are the same as you, Jyl, provided - the results of 1913 Le Mans race, gonna be all from the same source.

Thanks for the research "Faksta". We arrived at the same point!

[faksta]

In 1904 spring everyone was expecting of a great race – the run between St.-Petersberg and Kiev through Moscow should have been organized by Moscow Club of Automotive Enthusiasts (again I don’t know the proper English name) together with Russian Automotive Society. Drivers from Poland and France should have participate. The event, however, didn’t happen and 1904 was just as empty as 1903.
Strelna – Alexandrovskaya – Strelna race was won by Basil Soldatenkoff on his favourite ‘Lina’ car, which was a 50hp Richard-Brasier named in favour of Lina Cavalieri, Italian actress. He completed the 36-verst distance in a bit more then 32 minutes. To be said, he drove ‘Lina’on the roads, too. That’s what the ‘Lost Splendor’ book by Prince Felix Yussupov reads: “I spent a few days in Paris seeing my French friends, and then left for Russia with Basil Soldatenkoff who had offered to drive me in his racing car ‘Lina’. Basil always drove at full speed, and when I begged him to go a little slower he merely laughed and stepped on the accelerator.” Returning to the race, Bruno Fahrig driving a 16hp Richard-Brasier came second in 42 minutes. The same time was shown by Constantine Kapoustine on Sarolea 3hp motorcycle.
Next event, fourth Volhonka verst race, took place at July, 18. Soldatenkoff again took the first prize with his ‘Lina’ car and was very close to achieving 100 versts per hour that no one in Russia did before, though ran at 106,1 kmh (99,45 versts per hour) and completed one verst in 36,2 sec. Second place was taken by Sibilliot at Gobron-Brille 25hp with 72,1 kmh. Serpollet steam car was third with a result of 63 kmh. The first ladies record was set up at that event – madame Walton on 10hp Georges Richard completed a verst in 1 min 58 sec with a maximum speed of 32,5 kmh. Also a motorcycle record speed was shown – 76,2 kmh for Francois Donnier riding a 4,5hp Sarolea. This record was beaten only during a 1913 verst race.
The last event of that year, Luga – Gatchina – Krasnoe Selo – Strelna race, happened in a heavy rain on August, 28 instead of ‘classic’ Luga – St.-Petersberg. Francois Donnier, this time driving a car – 25hp Gobron-Brille – won the race 2h50m after the start together with Evgeniy Kuzmin. Kapoustine on 12hp car came second. The only motorcycle finished was Piskop (not sure in writing) on FN. The others – one car and two motorcycles – didn’t complete the distance.

The picture shows 'Lina' car. Taken from tsar-auto-club.spb.ru