2008 ALMS Official Thread

[MPME]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

I dunno, I was sorta thinking of a series that races cars such as those features here.

It was the first thing that popped up on Google when I searched zero emissions racing. I would consider these cars the true leaders in green racing. It appears as though several major automotive manufacturers take part, I see Mazda, Aston, Bentley, and Volkswagen sponsorship.

So it's global, it, unlike other forms of racing is actually pretty freaking green, and it is probably one of the most leading green racing events/series there is.

That is unless this is all a sham.

I'm also not sure this is the series/company that I heard of several years ago.

So I guess the ALMS is a leader, but most likely not the leader.

The ALMS is trying to paint itself as a green racing series in an effort I presume to pique manufacturer interest in the series as well as public interest in the series as the people running the ALMS see this new green trend in cars and motorsports potentially as a potential new source of revenue. Maybe the idea of being green is good enough and applaudable. Or maybe the controlling forces of the series actually care about the environment to some degree.

The Green Challenge is an interesting idea and I can imagine some of the smaller teams that are unlikely to challenge for class victories instead focusing on winning the challenge if their goal is to race at Le Mans - then again, maybe the drive to win will be to great and it won't make an impact to any considerable degree - an entirely likely scenario. After all, how many fans are gonna care who wins The Green Challenge? I mean, I'm gonna care more out of curiosity than anything else but I can't imagine what other casual viewers or even enthusiasts will think of this.

I don't think it's reasonable to consider an unknown series with vehicles (I hesitate to call them cars) that resemble gravity-powered soapbox derby cars as leading anything other than the Google AdWords battle to score top ranking under 'zero emissions racing.'

I can tell you that the ALMS leadership are more enthused and inspired to grow and legitimize their green goals for motor racing. They're also fast to point out that the green movement started with the ACO's rule changes to encourage diesels and alternate fuels, not with something they dreamt up this year as a marketing campaign or created on their own.

That's not to say any of your questions or concerns are unfounded, but maybe wait for the first Green Challenge event to take place before writing it off?

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by MPME

I don't think it's reasonable to consider an unknown series with vehicles (I hesitate to call them cars) that resemble gravity-powered soapbox derby cars as leading anything other than the Google AdWords battle to score top ranking under 'zero emissions racing.'

I can tell you that the ALMS leadership are more enthused and inspired to grow and legitimize their green goals for motor racing. They're also fast to point out that the green movement started with the ACO's rule changes to encourage diesels and alternate fuels, not with something they dreamt up this year as a marketing campaign or created on their own.

That's not to say any of your questions or concerns are unfounded, but maybe wait for the first Green Challenge event to take place before writing it off?

Yeah I am aware the link I provided was pretty poor - I tried to find a legitimate source for a zero emissions series of which I'm pretty sure there is one but couldn't find one and was not that willing to be persistent.

I guess if you are defining a leader as having an impact and large scale audience, then I guess the ALMS is the leader in green racing, but I'd think there are some obscure series that are massively green - in fact, I know there are/were either zero emissions series or ULEV series out there.

As for the Green Challenge, I haven't written it off at all - when I first learned of it after the announcement at the NAIAS I was very interested in how something like that would play out - I just don't know how the public will view it. I've checked the green index a few times already this season out of curiosity.

Speaking of the Green Challenge, are diesels really greener than gasoline cars? I've only read limited things on the subject. Diesels emit less greenhouse gases than gasoline cars, but are the gases that the diesels emit more potent? I seem to recall this potentially being the case. Also to consider is the carbon footprint of the production of diesel cars in comparison with gasoline cars - the issue seems to be complex.

Is biodiesel a positive or a negative for our environment? Is the production and harvesting of biodiesel actually more damaging to the environment?

I'm not sure that there are clear answers to these questions yet unlike some car companies would have us believe.

[MPME]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

Yeah I am aware the link I provided was pretty poor - I tried to find a legitimate source for a zero emissions series of which I'm pretty sure there is one but couldn't find one and was not that willing to be persistent.

I guess if you are defining a leader as having an impact and large scale audience, then I guess the ALMS is the leader in green racing, but I'd think there are some obscure series that are massively green - in fact, I know there are/were either zero emissions series or ULEV series out there.

As for the Green Challenge, I haven't written it off at all - when I first learned of it after the announcement at the NAIAS I was very interested in how something like that would play out - I just don't know how the public will view it. I've checked the green index a few times already this season out of curiosity.

Speaking of the Green Challenge, are diesels really greener than gasoline cars? I've only read limited things on the subject. Diesels emit less greenhouse gases than gasoline cars, but are the gases that the diesels emit more potent? I seem to recall this potentially being the case. Also to consider is the carbon footprint of the production of diesel cars in comparison with gasoline cars - the issue seems to be complex.

Is biodiesel a positive or a negative for our environment? Is the production and harvesting of biodiesel actually more damaging to the environment?

I'm not sure that there are clear answers to these questions yet unlike some car companies would have us believe.

The best measure of green-ness as I've seen is in what they call well-to-wheel calculations that analyze the resources consumed and the pollutants generated for a gallon (or liter) of fuel. One of the ALMS officials pointed out (in front of Audi!) that while their clean diesel technology is incredible, and does produce fewer harmful emissions than most anything else on the road, the chemicals and harmful clouds of toxins and wasteful byproducts in the manufacturing process for that diesel fuel far outweighs the benefit all of their TDI's offer on the highways of the world.

So in that capacity, the ecological damage done by Shell, BP, and every other diesel fuel manufacturer is far greater than any reduction in pollution the cars that use their products might offer.

[togos452]

What an amazing race at Mosport.

[Kitdy]

I was just wondering two things, first, how much support from the factory do the Acura teams get (does it vary?) in comparison with Penske?

Why are Dyson so far back in pace compared to the Acuras at some races when the RS Spyder of Penske is leading? Is Penske that good, Acura's support that good, Dyson that bad, or some combination?

[MPME]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

I was just wondering two things, first, how much support from the factory do the Acura teams get (does it vary?) in comparison with Penske?

Why are Dyson so far back in pace compared to the Acuras at some races when the RS Spyder of Penske is leading? Is Penske that good, Acura's support that good, Dyson that bad, or some combination?

1) a lot, and it does vary.

2) Penske's that good, and Acura's teams and product is that good. You have 6 factory cars against Dyson's 2 non-factory cars.

The easist answer is that these days, most of the speed you see on track from Penske and Acura comes from the use of vast digital resources away from the track. They show up with near-perfect setups and have only very minor changes to make.

Dyson, by comparison, have to rely heavily on the data provided by Porsche and do not have as large, experienced, or robust a simulation and virtual testing staff as their competitors.

Penske Porsche has only ever given them baseline setups to use, not the fully optimized data they use to start their weekends with.

As long as a customer follows in a manufacturer's tracks, they'll be destined to finish behind them.

With that said, if Penske is out at the endof the year as many suggest, Dyson would be the top team in P2 for Porsche...the support could be increased.

[togos452]

Good article on Gil de Ferran

August 29, 2008

Owner-driver role steers former Penske star in new direction | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

Gil de Ferran

[RacingManiac]

Also if Acuras are all sharing data from week to week then you get a lot more inputs to work with to refine your setup, whereas the 2 Porsche teams don't seem to be sharing much at all...

[TS020]

de Ferran motorsports and Parton Highcroft racing will field Acura's in the P1 class next season.