2008 24 Hours of Le Mans Official Thread

[henk4]

Originally Posted by MPME

Sam 'ACO' Collins spoke with some of theose Honda mechanics and learned they worked at a Honda garage, rather than being from the racing factory.

Based on their lack of speed, I don't doubt them. Really nice guys, but also a really average effort.

Welcome to UCP, just wondering whether you also noticed that while the Audi wheels seemed to fall off during pit stops, the Peugeot people always had to give an extra pull to release them...

[MPME]

Originally Posted by henk4

Welcome to UCP, just wondering whether you also noticed that while the Audi wheels seemed to fall off during pit stops, the Peugeot people always had to give an extra pull to release them...

Yeah-I could have written 10,000 words on their failings, but had to stop somewhere. Their bodywork also wasn't properly pre-fitted. In their crazed pursuit of performance they opted to leave their noses and engine covers as tight as possible in their mountings as to have perfectly sealed gaps for aero optimization.

Wouter and I were laughing as their mechanics were punching and pounding the bodywork any time they needed to make a change. They lost plenty more time with this as well. Audi, to no one's surprise, spent time to relieve the mounting points on their bodywork, and it saved them time when a change was required.

[henk4]

and by the way, from what I saw via my tiny internet covergae, I did not have the impression that the driver changes actually took longer than the combined refueling and tyre change. I have been watching them doing it during several LMS races from close by and never had the impression that the driver change was on the critical path...

[MPME]

Originally Posted by henk4

and by the way, from what I saw via my tiny internet covergae, I did not have the impression that the driver changes actually took longer than the combined refueling and tyre change. I have been watching them doing it during several LMS races from close by and never had the impression that the driver change was on the critical path...

We noted it during the race and then I poured over the timing and scoring data sheets after the race to suss out how long their driver changes took compared to Audi. As much spin as Pug want to put on things, the numbers don't lie...

[MPME]

sorry--i should have mentioned that i compared pug's fuel and tire stops versus fuel/tire/driver, or fuel/driver, and the driver change was responsible for longer the stops most of the time.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by MPME

sorry--i should have mentioned that i compared pug's fuel and tire stops versus fuel/tire/driver, or fuel/driver, and the driver change was responsible for longer the stops most of the time.

Well our next race will be the Silverstone LMS, I'll do some counting too...

[RacingManiac]

Audi team's preparation work is pretty much only matched by the P&M Corvette team....I remember watching the ALMS race at Mosport during off-session that the drivers are just practicing driver change over and over....and obviously as mentioned before, looking at the LM24 coverage of peugeot, their spare(or different setup) bodyworks are non-existant, they need to physically put one together on the spot in order to use it......I am sure Audi's were ready like the day after the test day.....

[Kitdy]

Just reading through the article MPME - interesting to note that Peugeot has put the blame on Villeneuve. Based on a very amateur an inexhaustive analysis last year, I figured that Villeneuve was slow - now it seems as though Peugeot thought he was slow this year and not only that, that he cost them the race.

I don't think it'd be clever of Peugeot to take him back next year.

[Wouter Melissen]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

Just reading through the article MPME - interesting to note that Peugeot has put the blame on Villeneuve. Based on a very amateur an inexhaustive analysis last year, I figured that Villeneuve was slow - now it seems as though Peugeot thought he was slow this year and not only that, that he cost them the race.

I don't think it'd be clever of Peugeot to take him back next year.

Villeneuve is certainly not their biggest problem. When was Villeneuve slow? He looked slow in the rain, but all three 908s were equally slow. It should also be noted that the #7 car was by far the slowest of the Peugeots. Can you provide me with lap times to proof just how slow he was?

[Zytek_Fan]

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

Villeneuve is certainly not their biggest problem. When was Villeneuve slow? He looked slow in the rain, but all three 908s were equally slow. It should also be noted that the #7 car was by far the slowest of the Peugeots. Can you provide me with lap times to proof just how slow he was?

If anything, he was the most consistant and trouble free of the drivers.
He didn't beach the car like Klien did.

Peugeot's strategy going in was to run like hell until something broke, fix it, and run like hell again. Unfortunately a series of incidents led up to Peugeot losing the opportunity of a win.
...and Allan McNish was just a little too fast for the Pugs


What Peugeot needs to do is a few 24 hour tests. Run the car through hell and back. Refine it. Like Audi has done with the R10.

[Chernaudi]

Problem is that Peugeot tech director Burno Famin admitted to Marshall that the 908 has never survived a 24 or 30 hour test without something bad happening. So the fact that all three Pugs finished this years was really kinda a gift.

Ironically, the rain, which cost Peugeot the race as far as negating their speed advantage, probably kept them from facing the humiliation of all three cars possibly not finishing due to mechanical problems-remember in '07 that one car blew an engine during the last hour, and the 2nd place finishing car almost handgrenaded and engine on the last lap. And the same was starting to play out, as, like in '07, the Peugeots overheated during the night, and the drivers had to reduce pace until the temperatures stabilized, but by then it was too late-the rains came and added insult to injury.

But if the race stayed dry, the Pugs likely would've overheated again or blew engines if that happened.

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

Villeneuve is certainly not their biggest problem. When was Villeneuve slow? He looked slow in the rain, but all three 908s were equally slow. It should also be noted that the #7 car was by far the slowest of the Peugeots. Can you provide me with lap times to proof just how slow he was?

Wouter I cannot. I admitted that it was a very freaking amateur analysis; my "analysis" was form 2007 when I noticed that Villeneuve was lapping slower than some of the other drivers.

I found it interesting that Mr. Pruett said that Peugeot privately blamed the loss on Villeneuve (I would wager amongst other things).

It is clear that Villeneuve was not their biggest problem, but when Peugeot says that he cost them the race, you gotta wonder how good he was.

EDIT: I can absolutely be incorrect.

[Chernaudi]

Although Jaques certianly isn't the caliber of his father Gilles, he is still capable of getting the job done as far as keeping the car in one piece-he certianly didn't spin the thing out like Miniassian did.

But he's certianly no Allan McNish on speed, and his big problem is traffic and out laps-but then again, has Villeneuve been behind the wheel of a racing car in a full time ride recently? Not counting the for now aborted Bill Davis Racing NASCAR Sprint Cup ride, he hasn't raced full time since 2006 when he left BMW Sauber late that F1 season.

I'd bet that he'd have been a little faster if he did more testing, or just drove more cars in competitve anger period.

JV's relative lack of pace didn't help matters, but I agree with Marshall-Peugeot shot themselves in the foot long before the Tricolor waved on June 14th.

[MPME]

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

Villeneuve is certainly not their biggest problem. When was Villeneuve slow? He looked slow in the rain, but all three 908s were equally slow. It should also be noted that the #7 car was by far the slowest of the Peugeots. Can you provide me with lap times to proof just how slow he was?

Villeneuve was awesome in the dry, but suffered in the wet. As for proof, you do realize he was leading when it began to rain, and went backwards as Kristensen went forward. Tom was fast, but the Peugeot was slow, and Jacques wasn't happy with the handling.

Here's one of the quotes about Jacques from their technical director from our interview last week:

"If you look precisely at the times during the wet period in Le Mans, the fastest car was the 908 #9 and then the #8. On the other hand, one of the drivers of #7, which was leading the race, was not so quick! It's why it seemed that the Peugeots were all slower than then the Audis."

There's a little bit of bravado in there, but to the other point, no, for what he's costing them, I don't think we'll see JV back in a 908 in '09.

[togos452]

Diesel versus diesel & diesel versus gasoline

Race Engine Technology

11th August 2008

Diesel versus diesel & diesel versus gasoline - Articles