2008 Formula One German Grand Prix

[Matra et Alpine]

IF we go back to the points being raised in the "cutting the corner" fiasco, it was poitned out that drivers would now worry about ALL the rules and overtaking would become a non-event.
So look with open mind at the maneouvre and consider if Massa realised that another move woudl be considered a weave, or that closing the door too abruptly woudl be considered a negative move and lead to a penalty !
The consequences of the Lews event were NOT jsut about "cutting a corner" but about how rules woudl be intepreeted and applied.

I consiedr that exlpanatino far more likely than "Massa chose to let Lewis win"

Scottie, if you look at almost every overtake then you see the consequence of no tractions control on lwer grip tarmac/tyres. Racing used to always involve those kind of maneouvres and when drivers knew when they were "beaten" it never caused any problems. Nowadays it seems we have to have someone to "blame"

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by scottie300z

I was disappointed to see Hamilton win off of passes that pushed people off of the track.

Isn't that ok as long as you have the position?

Lewis definitely was ahead and had the position in both cases.

There will be no penalty.

[scottie300z]

Yeah, it was just wishful thinking. I understand the whole lack of traction control thing but it would have been interesting if he and massa were side by side at the end of that corner instead of massa being pushed out and hamilton getting the pass from it because then they would have been racing the next corner as well

[kingofthering]

I guess Piquet won't worry about job security for a while now...

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

IF we go back to the points being raised in the "cutting the corner" fiasco, it was poitned out that drivers would now worry about ALL the rules and overtaking would become a non-event.
So look with open mind at the maneouvre and consider if Massa realised that another move woudl be considered a weave, or that closing the door too abruptly woudl be considered a negative move and lead to a penalty !
The consequences of the Lews event were NOT jsut about "cutting a corner" but about how rules woudl be intepreeted and applied.

I consiedr that exlpanatino far more likely than "Massa chose to let Lewis win"

I'm sorry but no.

Massa was in front of Hamilton, both on the inside of the corner. If he had stayed there he would have blocked Lewis pass and therefore stayed ahead. No weave or anything.

However for no explicable reason Massa chose to go left opening the door for Hamilton to pass.

And it's not either that "Massa chose to let Lewis win", it's justs that Massa is bad and that's it.

[Jack_Bauer]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

Welcome to the fall-out from the "penalised for cutting a corner" debacle
As was warned, worrying about how rules will be interpreted has perhaps had Massa make a decision that without the anti-lewis hysteria of 2 races ago he may not have given so easily

I don't see what this has to do with anything. As Ferrer pointed out, the fact is that Massa easily had the defensive inside line going into the corner. He chose to give up that advantageous position for no apparent reason.

It reminds of the famous pass Mansell put on Piquet at Silverstone in 87. Piquet bought Mansell's 'fake' and ended up gifting him the inside line. Only this time Hamilton didn't even need to fake; Massa bought a non-existant dummy. Massa has said afterwards that he didn't have the pace in the car and probably wouldn't have been able to beat Hamilton in the end, but that's completely missing the point. Even if you are going to end up losing, you're still supposed to put up as hard a fight as possible against your rivals.

Massa has proven to be very quick on his day, but time and time again in situations where he's been under severe pressure he crumbles far too easily. He reminds me of Fisichella back when he was at Renault in 05 and 06. He had a very quick car underneath him and had very good basic speed, but whenever someone like Schumacher or Raikkonen started breathing down his neck he would buckle under the stress almost immediately.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

I'm sorry but no.

Massa was in front of Hamilton, both on the inside of the corner. If he had stayed there he would have blocked Lewis pass and therefore stayed ahead. No weave or anything.

However for no explicable reason Massa chose to go left opening the door for Hamilton to pass.

And it's not either that "Massa chose to let Lewis win", it's justs that Massa is bad and that's it.

It's not that he chose to let Hamilton win. He just knows that 6 points is better than 5 or 4, so I'll make the corner and maybe I'll come back at him.

[Matra et Alpine]

re tryign to explain Massa's move as "wrong".

The so-called-defensive line into that corner is easily defeated as the lead driver chosing too tight an entry ends up severly compromised on exit speed. The following driver only has to take the outside entry line under braking and then get much better tractoin OUT of the corner.

Armchair judegments of Massa should be considerate of a driver trying to do his best with a chassis he failed to get set up properly. He did his best to limit Hamilton's options, but at the end of the day the McLaren was the faster car adn woudl achieve it by one way or another.

pt has a point too, though I was surprised to see Massa try to stick it out on the next left-hander too. Again, he might have done better to take the later line and try for traction .... 'cept he maybe knew that it was futile to try that and preferred to try to psych-out Lewis

[LandQuail]

Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

re tryign to explain Massa's move as "wrong".

The so-called-defensive line into that corner is easily defeated as the lead driver chosing too tight an entry ends up severly compromised on exit speed. The following driver only has to take the outside entry line under braking and then get much better tractoin OUT of the corner.

Armchair judegments of Massa should be considerate of a driver trying to do his best with a chassis he failed to get set up properly. He did his best to limit Hamilton's options, but at the end of the day the McLaren was the faster car adn woudl achieve it by one way or another.

pt has a point too, though I was surprised to see Massa try to stick it out on the next left-hander too. Again, he might have done better to take the later line and try for traction .... 'cept he maybe knew that it was futile to try that and preferred to try to psych-out Lewis

'Quail admits, as much as he was pulling for Hamilton, it did seem rather too easy for him to walk away with the big trophy.

However, it's worth noting that Hamilton earned and duly deserved every meter he clawed back in the last dozen laps. His pace was simply in another class, and that's got to be acknowledged even if the validity of his final passes are in question.

There's a saying in the 'States: Rubbing's racing.

In some ways, this applies to F1. In some ways it doesn't. Did the other drivers cow out and offer him the inside line on a golden platter intentionally, or did the "my god, where did he come from" factor play a part as the McLaren-Mercedes filled their mirrors?

The ugly truth is that, whether they let him or not, he got by. Unless there's politics that run deeper than I'm willing to acknowledge ($100,000,000 penalty, anyone?) the FIA doesn't seem to have taken a special liking to McLaren. Rubbin's racin, and the victory goes to the fastest.

C'est la vie, say the old folks.

Great write-up of the race, JB. Really great. I think I've gathered that you write for a living. Who signs your paychecks?