2008 Formula One Japanese Grand Prix

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

Bourdais penalized by 25 seconds, so it's now 9th
so Vettel is 6th, Massa 7th and Webber 8th

That's going to be controversial...

[faksta]

Originally Posted by LTSmash

Was anyone else surprised by Piquet's performance?

I was, TBH. I think he may even save his place in F1 for the next year now.

[faksta]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

Bourdais penalized by 25 seconds, so it's now 9th
so Vettel is 6th, Massa 7th and Webber 8th

So.. we can see how the racing itself loses the reason in F1 now. If FOA/FIA/BC whoever wants someone to win/score points (not to win/score points), they will 'notice' anything during the race to punish anyone. Why the hell did they impose a drive-through for Massa and Hamilton? I start thinking that it was done to let Kubica and Raikkonen score some extra points and to save an intrigue in WDC-ship. I haven't seen anything criminal in how did they act. Both. Just an ordinary collision, after which both drivers stayed in the race, no one suffered (physically, not speaking about position). That's not f***ing racing, that's business! Yep, it's interesting when the backmarkers win, but not this way - if Massa will receive a penalty for his every single breath...well, not great.

Eh..almost forgot..that Bourdais - Massa accident wasn't worth penalizing either...

[exeo]

Alonso wins!

[scottie300z]

It bothers me when cars use run off areas or push cars off the track while racing. If you cant pass while still on the track then the pass isn't good enough. Even the amount they use the curbs bothers me a bit. But instead of penalties they should just make the offtrack area in ways that your car will get damaged if you go there except for a few run off areas at high speed areas for safety. Races are supposed to take place on the track.

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

I have to reckon that currently Alonso is the best driver out there.

He started the season with a car that was slower than a bycicle and now he has won two races in a row (luck or not).

If he continues with such pace he could even finish 4th in WDC. No one would've even dreamt of that at the start of the year.

Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen

I have to agree. Can't see him leaving Renault now. Although Ferrari could really use him.

I think he is the best driver at the moment too. After Schumacher left, I figured he and Kimi would be the best but I'm not sure Kimi has been as good at Ferrari as he has been at McLaren - even thought he won the title in a Ferrari. This year he has proven to have the outright one-lap race pace but can't seem to find consistency and in some cases has looked impotent. Is it psychological? Is it the different car? Or both? Or is he just not as good as I thought he was?

What puzzles me is that Alonso didn't fare better against Lewis last season. He has proven to be very fast in this Renault which is not on par with the top teams (albeit massively improved from the start of the season) and I just figure him to be better than Lewis.

Originally Posted by ringle

What's with the FM/SB incident? Have the stewards lost their minds?

I missed much of the race as I slept but I saw a replay of that and remember the commentators saying that Massa may well receive a penalty. I figured it was Massa's fault as well. What say the rest of you guys that saw it better?

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

I think he is the best driver at the moment too. After Schumacher left, I figured he and Kimi would be the best but I'm not sure Kimi has been as good at Ferrari as he has been at McLaren - even thought he won the title in a Ferrari. This year he has proven to have the outright one-lap race pace but can't seem to find consistency and in some cases has looked impotent. Is it psychological? Is it the different car? Or both? Or is he just not as good as I thought he was?

What puzzles me is that Alonso didn't fare better against Lewis last season. He has proven to be very fast in this Renault which is not on par with the top teams (albeit massively improved from the start of the season) and I just figure him to be better than Lewis.

Alonso is doing much better compared to his team mate this year because Piquet is nowhere near Hamilton's talent and quality.

If Hamilton was in Renault (or Alonso had stayed in McLaren) Alonso wouldn't have been as dominant inside the team.

[scottie300z]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

I missed much of the race as I slept but I saw a replay of that and remember the commentators saying that Massa may well receive a penalty. I figured it was Massa's fault as well. What say the rest of you guys that saw it better?

YouTube - F1 Fuji GP 2008-Accidente Massa-Bourdais

I don't think a penalty should be assessed at all in this case. It was massa's fault but bourdais didn't really suffer for it so why assess anything? And why punish bourdais?

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by scottie300z

YouTube - F1 Fuji GP 2008-Accidente Massa-Bourdais

I don't think a penalty should be assessed at all in this case. It was massa's fault but bourdais didn't really suffer for it so why assess anything? And why punish bourdais?

I think this may come in handy.

Originally Posted by Sniff Petrol

Following unfortunate misunderstandings in the Grands Prix at Valencia and Spa, the FIA has revised the Red Car Rule for Formula 1. These amendments will be applied with immediate effect:

1) Overtaking a Ferrari is not permitted under any circumstances.
2) In the pit lane, a Ferrari always has precedence over other cars.
3) Any driver finishing less than 25 seconds ahead of a Ferrari will be penalized 25 seconds.*
4) If neither Ferrari finishes in first place, the stewards reserve the right to declare the result null and void (or to adjust it as necessary).
5) Only Ferrari drivers are permitted to use anything other than ‘designated’ parts of a circuit.
6) If forced off the ‘designated’ part of the track by a Ferrari, the guilty driver should immediately crash his car and return to the pits
6) Any driver or team appealing against any FIA decision in favour of Ferrari may be subject to a fine and/or the deduction of points.
*Subject to post-race adjustment by the stewards.

Sniff Petrol

[scottie300z]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

I think this may come in handy.

Sniff Petrol

Ah yes, I should have known better. It is the first page in the FIA rule book.

[LeonOfTheDead]

as I said I didn't watch the race, but looking at the YT link, it didn't seem a situation to be sanctioned at all. perhaps Bourdais was re-joining the race after a pit?

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

as I said I didn't watch the race, but looking at the YT link, it didn't seem a situation to be sanctioned at all. perhaps Bourdais was re-joining the race after a pit?

He was. But even so he was already out of the pitlane.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

He was. But even so he was already out of the pitlane.

well it makes sense, even if just a little.
probably I saw worst situations not sanctioned.

[Jack_Bauer]

The decision to punish Bourdais is an absolute joke. I'd be interested to know what the exact justification for the punishment is. What was Bourdais adjudged to have done wrong? He had the inside line into the corner, stayed on the inside line throughout, and was clipped from the outside by Massa. It wasn't as if Massa was squeezed or limited in terms of space, he had acres of room to make an easy pass considering his car was lighter, on hot tyres and clearly much faster. It was a racing incident IMO, but if anyone was at fault it was Massa.

Yet Massa has the cheek to claim that his penalty was unfair and that his clash with Hamilton just a racing incident, and if anything Hamilton was to blame!

Originally Posted by planetf1.com

The Ferrari driver, who cut across the chicane to ram the side of Hamilton's McLaren after being overtaken, was given a drive-through penalty for the second-lap incident, but escaped any punishment for his involvement in the collision with Bourdais. Instead, the Frenchman was handed a retrospective penalty, which in turn promoted Massa to seventh place and cut Hamilton's lead to the Brazilian in the World Championship standings to just five points.

Incredibly, despite the weight of evidence against him, Massa insisted that he was not to blame for colliding with Hamilton.

"It was a racing incident," he said. "I was a little bit wide at the corner and he put the car inside while I was outside.

"Then he pushed me a little bit close to the gravel and then I put two wheels on the gravel and he closed in and we touched.

"I was already on the gravel so I couldn't do anything and we touched."

Asked if he felt the stewards were right to punish both himself and Hamilton, Massa replied: "For him yes, for me I am not sure. I had two wheels on the gravel. I could not stop the car and I was on the gravel because he pushed me into the gravel."

I hope he retracts that opinion after reviewing the footage in the cold light of day, because it makes him look rather silly otherwise.

[f6fhellcat13]

Do they really think that just because the driver being penalised in favor of a red car isn't in a frontrunner that they can get away with it. Massa was uncharacteristically aggressive the whole race and youda thunk that the stewards would realize it.
Lewis, just pathetic...