Going backwards to go forwards in F1? and/or F1 musings...

[f6fhellcat13]

I have been watching a lot of old touring car/pre-wing F1 videos on Youtube, and it got me thinking; what technology could be removed from F1 to make it more interesting? Automated gearboxes, steering wheels from hell, wings, 2.4L engines, etc...

Though I am currently riding a wave of nostalgia, I realize that this isn't always going to work (the banning of slicks comes to mind). I also realize that the modern retro trend has more than run its course in cars, and I am tired of it. I don't want F1 to become a throwback series, but there are aspects of it, that I believe are integral to racing, that have been lost.
There is also another part of me that wishes there was more technical freedom for the teams, and that the FIA's myopic regulations are ruining any chance of more exciting racing in the future.

I am pretty conflicted/undecided on this issue as my directionless rambling probably shows.

For instance:
I think the turbo era was great because the cars were engineering marvels and made 1,000,000 bhpz, y0. But, aren't F1 cars of any age engineering marvels? Turbocharging in F1 also doesn't really sit well with me, for whatever reason. I wouldn't mid superchargers á la the original Gran Prix cars, but no modern team would use them as they are too inefficient. But then again, maybe through their use in F1 the parasitic losses could be greatly reduced.

In that vein; should old technologies that have been banned be revitalized and legalized? I have already mentioned slicks, and I feel that their reintroduction has been a success.

But do we want ground effects and their ilk back? Surely the racing will be quicker, but will it be more interesting? I think not, probably.

Maybe what F1 needs is more clever engineering that is accessible to the semi-competent average person. But, then F1 might be slower than lesser formulae...

I realize that where this thread might eventually lead is the "UCP F1 series" and what it would be, and I guess that would be alright but try to keep it somewhat realistic. For instance, keep in mind the times we live in; you cannot simply scrap all the safety equipment to make the cars lighter and do other things in that vein. Also, please no Clarkson-esque proposals like guns on cars, sharks with "laz0rz" in Monaco's harbor, etc...

Feel free to be as scatterbrained as I have been...

[Rasmus]

Aight,

YouTube - F1 Turbo Era Duel - Gilles Villeneuve x Rene Armoux

YouTube - F1 Turbo Era Duel - Gilles Villeneuve x Rene Armoux

[Ferrer]

Three pedals and gear levers are a must.

[f6fhellcat13]

Originally Posted by Rasmus

Aight,

yum

I think resurrecting the dead goes in the "fanciful" category.

On a slightly more serious note; are you saying that the pinnacle of F1 was acheived in 1979 and the current formula should revert to those regulations?

[Rasmus]

Cloning is the answer!

In all seriousness, no, I was referring to the Arnoux/Villeneuve duel because it - in my humble opinion - is one of the best F1 duels out there. I'm not saying the technical brilliance of the time overshadows that of today's cars. By all means, if the 3.0 V10s had been allowed to rev free, I'm fairly certain we would've seen power output levels worthy to those of the turbo era.

It might be that memories almost always will be wonderful, pink and studded with rainbows and unicorns, but seeing that duel brings back fond memories (and this is coming from a 28 year old). I mean, all the rules and regulations that have been introduced in the name of equality and security haven't really done much for the sport. If they were meant to make the sport more entertaining I would surely say that to some extent they have failed.

</rant>

[NSXType-R]

Awesome thread, f6fhellcat13.

Can I refer to you as hellcat from now on?

I'm a bit confused with your poll- is there a simpler is better kinda choice to cut costs?

I don't mean going back to cigar tube body styles, but any way to make F1 easier on the teams cost wise would be nice.

I mean, Honda dropped out because it got too expensive, and I hated to see Honda go.

I did like it up to the 1990's, when Senna was around. After that it just got a bit boring.

I think turbos are fine, but if one person uses it, everyone should, or at least everyone should be putting out as much hp/torque in general to make it a fair and close race.

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Three pedals and gear levers are a must.

Ferrer, I love how you like everything simple, and I do too. And I'm sure it'll drop costs too.

My opinion- anything to be done to make it easier for the teams to come back in.

[Kitdy]

It is my thinking that F1 has over-restricted itself. F1 may not be the best racing in the world to watch - it may well be far from it, but what it's always had going for it was it';s technological advancements. I want to see freer regulations to allow for more interesting solutions. I want to see engines over 20k rpm, I want to see direct injectoin, I want to see new and interesting tech that has never been thought up of before.

Or do you try to make racing closer and F1 more of a spec series? It seems to me that if you want closer racing, look elsewhere, and that F1 should be the leader in motorsport technology - thus lessen the restrictions.

[f6fhellcat13]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

Awesome thread, f6fhellcat13.

Can I refer to you as hellcat from now on?

'course

I'm a bit confused with your poll- is there a simpler is better kinda choice to cut costs?

sure if a mod makes it

I don't mean going back to cigar tube body styles, but any way to make F1 easier on the teams cost wise would be nice.

I mean, Honda dropped out because it got too expensive, and I hated to see Honda go.

I did like it up to the 1990's, when Senna was around. After that it just got a bit boring.

I think turbos are fine, but if one person uses it, everyone should, or at least everyone should be putting out as much hp/torque in general to make it a fair and close race.

Ferrer, I love how you like everything simple, and I do too. And I'm sure it'll drop costs too.

My opinion- anything to be done to make it easier for the teams to come back in.

I agree with you about simplicity, but you would have to balance simplicity with still being on the cutting edge of science, because that is, after all, a good deal of F1's appeal.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13

I agree with you about simplicity, but you would have to balance simplicity with still being on the cutting edge of science, because that is, after all, a good deal of F1's appeal.

I don't think necessarily simplicty and cutting edge technology are mutually exclusive.

[NSXType-R]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

It is my thinking that F1 has over-restricted itself. F1 may not be the best racing in the world to watch - it may well be far from it, but what it's always had going for it was it';s technological advancements. I want to see freer regulations to allow for more interesting solutions. I want to see engines over 20k rpm, I want to see direct injectoin, I want to see new and interesting tech that has never been thought up of before.

Or do you try to make racing closer and F1 more of a spec series? It seems to me that if you want closer racing, look elsewhere, and that F1 should be the leader in motorsport technology - thus lessen the restrictions.

I guess you're right, but there's nothing wrong with ingenuity right? If you can make the cars faster with less money, why not?

Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13

'course
sure if a mod makes it

I agree with you about simplicity, but you would have to balance simplicity with still being on the cutting edge of science, because that is, after all, a good deal of F1's appeal.

That's true, but it doesn't help if it's done at the expense of competition- people can't race because they can't afford it. I don't know who those people are because I don't follow it, but one of them would be Honda, maybe Jaguar. I remember Jag being in for one year and then pulling out quickly.

Originally Posted by Ferrer

I don't think necessarily simplicty and cutting edge technology are mutually exclusive.

Exactly.

What happened to Champ Car anyway? I know they got folded in with Indy, but they did do road races right? How different are they from F1? Is there anything to learn or apply to F1 racing from Champ Car? Maybe F1 will die too, just like Champ Car did if they don't change in the right direction. Are they in danger?

[jump15vc]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

I guess you're right, but there's nothing wrong with ingenuity right? If you can make the cars faster with less money, why not?



That's true, but it doesn't help if it's done at the expense of competition- people can't race because they can't afford it. I don't know who those people are because I don't follow it, but one of them would be Honda, maybe Jaguar. I remember Jag being in for one year and then pulling out quickly.



Exactly.

What happened to Champ Car anyway? I know they got folded in with Indy, but they did do road races right? How different are they from F1? Is there anything to learn or apply to F1 racing from Champ Car? Maybe F1 will die too, just like Champ Car did if they don't change in the right direction. Are they in danger?

Jaguar was a major player for years before they pulled out due to costs that ford wasnt willing to pay. and champ car is simply a disaster. It was f1 on a tiny budget but without the big spending the cars arent as impressive and the drivers didnt want to go there because it was essentially a dead end. at least if they drove indy it was a bigger stage and a few jumped to nascar or even f1 but champ car didnt have interesting drivers or teams and the racing was nothing special, so they werent viable.

[Rasmus]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

It is my thinking that F1 has over-restricted itself. F1 may not be the best racing in the world to watch - it may well be far from it, but what it's always had going for it was it';s technological advancements.

+1

I want to see FI vs. NA. Heck, I even want to see diesel vs. petrol.

Diversity, please.

[pimento]

Originally Posted by Rasmus

+1

I want to see FI vs. NA. Heck, I even want to see diesel vs. petrol.

Diversity, please.

Isn't that what LeMans is for?

[f6fhellcat13]

Originally Posted by Rasmus

Diversity, please.

Somebody's trying to climb the corporate ladder.

I agree, and I think the only way that diversity can work is to delimit the racing. For example; Le Mans. The diesel and gasoline cars in P1 are not equal because the regulations have restricted them as such. If however it was freed up a bit, the gas cars would easily be going faster, but the diesels would last longer on a tank of fuel and you'd have a much more preferable (to the current situation) tortoise-and-hare thing going on.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13

Somebody's trying to climb the corporate ladder.

I agree, and I think the only way that diversity can work is to delimit the racing. For example; Le Mans. The diesel and gasoline cars in P1 are not equal because the regulations have restricted them as such. If however it was freed up a bit, the gas cars would easily be going faster, but the diesels would last longer on a tank of fuel and you'd have a much more preferable (to the current situation) tortoise-and-hare thing going on.

If gas was not restricted and had an advantage over diesel, all the teams would run it including audi and peugot. the problem with deregulation is that after a season or two all teams gravitate to whatever technology is fastest. so you soon get the sameness of spec racing, except that the big budget teams will be much much faster.