Is anyone well informed about DTM cars?

[group c n b man]

Not very much is available on the internet about the actual performance and dynamics of current DTM racers. I know they are purpose built racers and they have standard 470bhp engines etc. but what is their genuine performance in relation to other formulae. How fast are they around a track? How fast do they accelerate? What is their top speed? How loud or quiet are they?

[henk4]

Hockenheim GP Track
F1: 1.13
DTM: 1.33

[RacingManiac]

DTM car is probably as fast as a ALMS GT1/FIA GT car around some track...pending the power requirement of the place. It makes a lot of downforce, runs on carbon brakes and have sequential boxes....

[LeonOfTheDead]

In 2008 a DTM Audi A4 set the lap record at Oschersleben in 1:23.4
This year the Maserati MC12 set the pole position in 1.24.5.
That said, the GT1 cars are running on heavy restriction, both for the engine and the aerodynamics.

[RacingManiac]

I think if they were to race on a place like Le Mans or something GT1 car will be faster....you give them enough straight to stretch the legs of the engine and the power comes into its own...DTM car is not exactly free either since most components are spec for both model. There is no doubt though DTM is the faster touring car around at the moment, with BTCC and WTCC being mostly production based, and V8 supercar being lumbering beast of a race car that they are...

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

I think if they were to race on a place like Le Mans or something GT1 car will be faster....you give them enough straight to stretch the legs of the engine and the power comes into its own...DTM car is not exactly free either since most components are spec for both model. There is no doubt though DTM is the faster touring car around at the moment, with BTCC and WTCC being mostly production based, and V8 supercar being lumbering beast of a race car that they are...

Completely agree. I used that track as the first to come to mind where they both raced.
Also, what I meant with the restrictions on the GT1 cars is that the same cars used to be faster, with special regard to the MC12, and received every years since their debuts more and more restrictions.

[RacingManiac]

Heh, MC12 is just one big blunder in itself....not sure what Ferrari were thinking when they built that....

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

Heh, MC12 is just one big blunder in itself....not sure what Ferrari were thinking when they built that....

Don't forget about Dallara as well.
It proved to be unbeatable, even if it missed the big deal, Le Mans.

Even the C6.R are slower now though as well as the others. About one second in a short track as the Adria circuit.

[LeonOfTheDead]

and what about Super GT cars then?
I always considered DTM cars a bit off the line, so I guess we could consider the Japanese championships as well...

[kingofthering]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

and what about Super GT cars then?
I always considered DTM cars a bit off the line, so I guess we could consider the Japanese championships as well...

Super GT> GT1. Team Goh had a Maserati MC12 they were planning to run, but even that couldn't keep up with the Super GT-spec NSX they were using. However, this is only the GT500 class. There is a GT300 class which, if I remember, runs cars like the 911 GT3.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by kingofthering

Super GT> GT1. Team Goh had a Maserati MC12 they were planning to run, but even that couldn't keep up with the Super GT-spec NSX they were using. However, this is only the GT500 class. There is a GT300 class which, if I remember, runs cars like the 911 GT3.

That MC12 had to sustain heavy modifications to comply with the GT500 rules, mods it wasn't designed to sustain, and even achieving higherspeeds, the downforce for the corners was compromised if compared to the purposedly built GT500 cars.

[RacingManiac]

Super GT (500 class)car to normal GT to me is like what DTM is to normal Touring car.....extra downforce and purpose built chassis. They are as fast as LMP cars in some tracks(maybe not LMP of today, but maybe 4-5 years ago). The MC12 that was tried as GT500 was as fast as the 1997 CLK-GTR at Vallenuga(sp?), but was not fast enough to compete with regular GT500 car...worth to remember too that Super GT also has tire war going on...

GT300 is a bit odd, you have some normal GT3 RSR and whatnot, and then you have the purpose built cars like Moonlight Shiden(Daytona Prototype based) or the Celica or MR Spyder, and then you have the detuned FIA GT1 cars like the Viper GTS-R before....not sure whats going on there...

[group c n b man]

DTM is probably the ultimate touring car. The DTMs are indeed faster than FIA GT1 around the Istanbul Park circuit where the F1 is held. Only F1, GP2 and LMP are faster. However this isn't entirely surprising. Touring cars in general seem to be more purpose built than GT cars. i.e DTM is about the same as if not faster than GT1 whereas S2000 is about the same as GT3.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by group c n b man

DTM is probably the ultimate touring car. The DTMs are indeed faster than FIA GT1 around the Istanbul Park circuit where the F1 is held. Only F1, GP2 and LMP are faster. However this isn't entirely surprising. Touring cars in general seem to be more purpose built than GT cars. i.e DTM is about the same as if not faster than GT1 whereas S2000 is about the same as GT3.

DTM is not a touring car at all. It is, what is called a silhouette racing car, a fully fledged front engined GT car, provided with a body intended to make people believe that they are watching a daily driver. (The good old NASCAR philosophy). In this respect the BMW M3 GT4 is a much "ultimate touring car", with the driver sitting where he sits in the road car, and the engine not shifted backwards by half a meter or so.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by henk4

DTM is not a touring car at all. It is, what is called a silhouette racing car, a fully fledged front engined GT car, provided with a body intended to make people believe that they are watching a daily driver. (The good old NASCAR philosophy). In this respect the BMW M3 GT4 is a much "ultimate touring car", with the driver sitting where he sits in the road car, and the engine not shifted backwards by half a meter or so.

Good idea to call in GT4 cars.