Why not Ferrari in top tier Endurance racing?

[Dino Scuderia]

Originally Posted by DanVB

The Rolex series, either the DPs or the GTs is a prime example of great competition involving several different makes of engine and chassis manufacturers. It makes for great racing and any combo is capable of winning any given race day. It is for this reason I watch and also I enjoy seeing Ford or Chevy beating Porsche or Lexus or whoever.
The formula of displacement, weight, engine restrictors has equalized the competition and has resulted in great racing at a very reasonable cost.
Should I expect the same for F1? No, of course not, but I can’t see how spending $300 to $500 million a year benefits a company like Ferrari in the long run. They are rumored to be having financial problems and I wonder if they are getting their money’s worth in F1 or is it just a super expensive social club for the elite.
Ferrari is entrenched in F1 and will probably go broke and close before they pull out of the series.
BTW, most Americans who buy Ferraris or Lambos do so because of the prestige, a status symbol, not because of they love the brand or are motorheads. Most don’t have a clue about the pedigree or racing history for that matter.

And next season one of the DP's will be Ferrari powered.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

And next season one of the DP's will be Ferrari powered.

Is "Rolex-series" another name for ALMS?

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

Talking about Lamborghini, that's a funny argument. Without considering what Lamborghini is and what that it's selling now, I think a good part of its fame, exactly among those who look for a status symbol, was just related to the fact they were the pricer alternative to the other Italian supercar maker.

Lambos prestige derives from the exact opposite of Ferrari. Where Ferrari was substance, Lamborghini was style.

They were famous because their doors open upwards and because they were the company car of choice for the gentlemen of the adult entertainment bussiness.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Lambos prestige derives from the exact opposite of Ferrari. Where Ferrari was substance, Lamborghini was style.

They were famous because their doors open upwards and because they were the company car of choice for the gentlemen of the adult entertainment bussiness.

Style...are you talking about the US specs Countach with those nasty bumpers?

[jump15vc]

Rolex series is below alms in terms of money, technology etc. Ive never really gotten into dp, and a lot of that was because ferrari f1 was cooler than a riley-pontiac dp. rolex does have some great racing but a lot of that is because of the simplicity of the cars and the lower speeds. Ferrari makes far more money from f1 than they would in any other series and they are more associated with f1 than any other marque. So it wouldnt make sense for them to enter lmp or other cars. imo they arent a big enough company to field both an f1 team and a successful le mans program, and i would rather watch ferrari have a great f1 team and no le mans entry than 2 mediocre team. im not sure but i cant think of a time when ferrari has had a strong f1 team and done well at le mans at the same time since the 60's. it seems that ferrari is at its best when they focus on f1 which is where they will stay.

also wouldnt ferrari's e-diff and aerodynamics technologies be more recent f1 sourced technology than flappy paddles?

[kingofthering]

Originally Posted by henk4

Is "Rolex-series" another name for ALMS?

No, it's a type of spec series in which the only thing that differs between cars are chassis (several to models choose from), engines and headlights.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

Style...are you talking about the US specs Countach with those nasty bumpers?

Haha, not all style has to be good...

[DanVB]

The Grand Am Rolex DP series is interesting because of the extensive mix of manufacturer participation involving their more or less performance street engines – Ford DOHC V-8, Chevy small block V-8, Porsche flat 6, BMW, Lexus V-8, Honda V-6 etc. Valve sizes, camshaft lift, duration, compression ratio, etc. are set for each engine. Lola, Dallara, Riley and other chassis makes with a spec Pirelli tire. They are kind of a low cost prototype. The GT class (street cars) also has a good mix of manufacturers with a similar engine formula.
It all adds up to competitive racing and tickets are cheap, around $40 for a full day of racing! You can get paddock passes for $20 or less and talk to the mechanics and drivers.
Cheap fun! It would be great boost to the sport to have Ferrari in the DP ranks and I am looking forward to it!
Still there is nothing better than the LeMans prototypes and I am still hoping Ferrari jumps on board someday. Unlike F1, they can even race in America like Peugeot and Lola/Mazda did.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by DanVB

The Grand Am Rolex DP series is interesting because of the extensive mix of manufacturer participation involving their more or less performance street engines – Ford DOHC V-8, Chevy small block V-8, Porsche flat 6, BMW, Lexus V-8, Honda V-6 etc. Valve sizes, camshaft lift, duration, compression ratio, etc. are set for each engine. Lola, Dallara, Riley and other chassis makes with a spec Pirelli tire. They are kind of a low cost prototype. The GT class (street cars) also has a good mix of manufacturers with a similar engine formula.
It all adds up to competitive racing and tickets are cheap, around $40 for a full day of racing! You can get paddock passes for $20 or less and talk to the mechanics and drivers.
Cheap fun! It would be great boost to the sport to have Ferrari in the DP ranks and I am looking forward to it!
Still there is nothing better than the LeMans prototypes and I am still hoping Ferrari jumps on board someday. Unlike F1, they can even race in America like Peugeot and Lola/Mazda did.

So Rolex fields the Daytona Prototypes, the ones which are sort of egg-shaped, compared to the slick LMS coupes.

[DanVB]

Yes the Daytona Prototypes are a bit like LMP1's less attractive sister with the big head, er' cockpit. And some have the big noses. Otherwise they look like sportscars.

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by henk4

So Rolex fields the Daytona Prototypes, the ones which are sort of egg-shaped, compared to the slick LMS coupes.

One big dig at the Daytonas (I hesitate to use the acronym DP for reasons... well let's not get into it) is that they are really ugly. Also, they are slow.

On another note, there's actually been an interesting war going on between the ALMS and Grand-Am. One of the upper management of Grand-Am posted a tirade on a blog against the ALMS for policies they saw as threatening to the ALMS. I think it was about the ALMS potentially opening it's ranks to some Daytona Prototypes or something - I can't exactly remember.

It seems to me (based on reading Ten Tenths) that the bulk of sportscar racing fans prefer the ALMS (the ALMS also has the better TV contract, with some races airing on ABC so that's not bad for publicity). Grand-Am is accused of being NASCARified (something many sportscar fans see as negative unsurprisingly); for those that don't know, it's owned by NASCAR. I've never actually watched a Grand-Am race but would like to.

henk to make it clear, Grand-Am is the Rolex Sports Car Series or whatever it's called by another name.

[wwgkd]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

One big dig at the Daytonas (I hesitate to use the acronym DP for reasons... well let's not get into it) is that they are really ugly. Also, they are slow.

On another note, there's actually been an interesting war going on between the ALMS and Grand-Am. One of the upper management of Grand-Am posted a tirade on a blog against the ALMS for policies they saw as threatening to the ALMS. I think it was about the ALMS potentially opening it's ranks to some Daytona Prototypes or something - I can't exactly remember.

It seems to me (based on reading Ten Tenths) that the bulk of sportscar racing fans prefer the ALMS (the ALMS also has the better TV contract, with some races airing on ABC so that's not bad for publicity). Grand-Am is accused of being NASCARified (something many sportscar fans see as negative unsurprisingly); for those that don't know, it's owned by NASCAR. I've never actually watched a Grand-Am race but would like to.

henk to make it clear, Grand-Am is the Rolex Sports Car Series or whatever it's called by another name.

It can be entertaining with the paint swapping (similar to nascar) that you see the prototypes pulling off, but I like alms better.

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by wwgkd

It can be entertaining with the paint swapping (similar to nascar) that you see the prototypes pulling off, but I like alms better.

Why?

Screw the 5 character limit.

[csl177]

The Rolex Daytona "Prototypes" (sic) are the NASCAR-fied things the France family engineered to boot LMP from their tracks.
They are U-G-L-Y. Look like the design brief was taken from the original Mosler Consulier of 20+ years ago. See below.

(for the record, I did Mosler's advertising and marketing at the time, and even produced drawings of attractive replacement nose and tail panels in an attempt to broaden the market for a good car, and stay the attacks from the automotive press regarding it's looks... Warren would change nothing. the cars remained very competent but ugly as sin.)

When the Daytona Protoypes were first released I was at a track event with some of the AutoWeek crew and suggested they do a
"body double" with a Mosler on the BWTM back page. Everyone laughed and agreed, but no way they'd piss off an important advertiser.
Don't mess with a whole race series.

Not prototypes in any way, but a spec chassis intended for "the show", not serious world-class competition.
If they brought one to Lemans or run with the LMP teams, they would be humiliated.
Cheap racing? No such thing.

Ferrari has absolutely no reason to run anything but an F1 team for all the reasons already enumerated.
The idea of a Ferrari DP car is ludicrous.

[wwgkd]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

Why?

Screw the 5 character limit.

The cars. The LMPs are better race cars, and look much better. It helps me get into the racing more than I really can with the DPs. As csl stated they're not really prototypes, just a spec series and as such don't push things as much, and I do find the technological innovations of top end race cars (LMP, F1...) a fascinating aspect of nonproduction car racing. So with less respect as a race car I'm more in it for the paint swapping than the racing, same as nascar (which aren't really race cars or production related, just a spec series that only turns one direction.)