888 announce 2004 endurance drivers

[Falcon500]

Seton doesnt doesnt run from the camrea...hes actually quite good to the people....but hes not in the medias eyes as often...
Slight technicality intornatinal group a rules stipulated that red flags go back 2 laps not one like ATCC rules of the past actually used so dick leading one lap under safety car its quite understandable to understand why he was so upset also you can see why he thought he won.....so the exact same rule didnt help him
Australian crouds...cant argue with that but everyone concerned was throwing beer cans at him...it wasnt his fault but the chances are if i was there i would of been throwing some too....
Super touring cars where a european thing not australian...notice how most of the ex super tourers are shunned? and how the super tourers are dead...they done increasingly deeper lines in between them and the people chose they stopped whatching the buzz boxes....
And in general that why most people dont like the carrera cup....id rather whatch formula ford...thats mostly parity based....if it wasnt a v8 side show no one would care.....
But also that said nations cup doesnt...but its run by australians and has mostly australians driveing in it...and GT-p which has the same rules for everyone which essentially was group As problems who where attemtping and failing F#$%ing dismally at makeing it fair

[motorsportnerd]

No problems, Falc. I assume you were about to deliver a decisive rebuttal of my arguments...
Could have left the best part about Rogers in though. I think we all love Garry here. Perhaps someone should invite him onto the forum to tear apart our arguments?

[motorsportnerd]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Seton doesnt doesnt run from the camrea...hes actually quite good to the people....but hes not in the medias eyes as often...
Slight technicality intornatinal group a rules stipulated that red flags go back 2 laps not one like ATCC rules of the past actually used so dick leading one lap under safety car its quite understandable to understand why he was so upset also you can see why he thought he won.....so the exact same rule didnt help him

Seton is a nice bloke from what I've seen. No argument. He is a little shy and introverted though. Also, I've never seen Jimmy running from the camera and that pack of arseholes comment is the worst thing I ever heard him say. He's always pleasant to interviewers and perhaps more tellingly other drivers respect him greatly. He's always first chosen for the enduros. Perhaps you're been a little harsh?? Motorsports is allowed its quiet introverts.
And the fans love Perkins despite despite the fact hes arrogant, rude, argumentative and extremely dismissive of rival drivers. Whereas Richards isn't so loved despite been the opposite of Perkins? Maybe I'm missing something, but seems to me Perkins is forgiven a lot while no one forgets one comment that Richard's makes. Or does the fact Jimmy still has an NZ passport have something to do with it (showing my inferiority complex here...)
And the technicality over the rules? We can't award the win to Johnson retrospectively...

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Super touring cars where a european thing not australian...notice how most of the ex super tourers are shunned? and how the super tourers are dead...they done increasingly deeper lines in between them and the people chose they stopped whatching the buzz boxes....
And in general that why most people dont like the carrera cup....id rather whatch formula ford...thats mostly parity based....if it wasnt a v8 side show no one would care.....
But also that said nations cup doesnt...but its run by australians and has mostly australians driveing in it...and GT-p which has the same rules for everyone which essentially was group As problems who where attemtping and failing F#$%ing dismally at makeing it fair

Brock wasn't crucified for driving the Volvo.... The fans love Murph, despite the fact he started out in an (gasp) Audi in Australia. And Radisich wouldn't have the rat nickname if he didn't have a lot of fans. Bradly Jones has his share of fans. And Baird. And, yes, even Morris has a couple of fans. Sure, the top ex-Super Tourer drivers are shunned.... I agree that the second and third rate ex-Super Tourer drivers are shunned, but then so are second and third rate V8 drivers.
And, hey, leave those Porsches alone. They sound great. Look good. And they are a true parity formula - the driver (or the organic component as Lowndes is refered to by FPR) is the most important element.
Guess what I'm saying here is there's room for more than one top catagory in Australia. Super-Tourers never set out to topple V8s. Just to provide an outlet for other manufacturers. And you can't blame the Super Tourer management (one Kevin O'Rielly who now works for AVESCO) for going to Bathurst when invited. Not to do so would have ended the class even sooner. Nations Cup and GTP currently fill the role that Super Tourers used to, but costs are more controlled.
Just a reminder on Jimmys stats - Bathurst victories - 7. Australian Touring Car Championships -4 (2 for BMW, 2 for Nissan - the cheek of the man not to win in a Holden or Ford). Nations Cup/GTP - 4. Porsche Cup - 1. Targa - 7 (from memory - correct me if I'm wrong).
And, just a pointer, four of his Bathurst victories were in Holdens, putting him third behind Brock (9) and Perkins (6) on the list of Holden winners...

[Falcon500]

Well perosnally i would to love him to answer my queastions on jamie whincup...."i know hes not doing great now and i expect him to try and find his feet...if he doesnt show any form next year hell have to find other work" if there was a next year.....
Allour other comment he has fobbed of in the media...like the nations cup monaro...i wonder how he will justify it now all considering there is no road going varient....

[motorsportnerd]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Well perosnally i would to love him to answer my queastions on jamie whincup...."i know hes not doing great now and i expect him to try and find his feet...if he doesnt show any form next year hell have to find other work" if there was a next year.....
Allour other comment he has fobbed of in the media...like the nations cup monaro...i wonder how he will justify it now all considering there is no road going varient....

Shall we leave a message on the GRM website inviting Garry to come on over and abuse us/answer our questions?
And does Whincup have an enduro drive? Hell, even a Porsche Carrera Cup drive? Or a Konica drive?

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

Seton is a nice bloke from what I've seen. No argument. He is a little shy and introverted though. Also, I've never seen Jimmy running from the camera and that pack of arseholes comment is the worst thing I ever heard him say. He's always pleasant to interviewers and perhaps more tellingly other drivers respect him greatly. He's always first chosen for the enduros. Perhaps you're been a little harsh?? Motorsports is allowed its quiet introverts.
And the fans love Perkins despite despite the fact hes arrogant, rude, argumentative and extremely dismissive of rival drivers. Whereas Richards isn't so loved despite been the opposite of Perkins? Maybe I'm missing something, but seems to me Perkins is forgiven a lot while no one forgets one comment that Richard's makes. Or does the fact Jimmy still has an NZ passport have something to do with it (showing my inferiority complex here...)
And the technicality over the rules? We can't award the win to Johnson retrospectively...

Yes seto is...hes also not the kind to have a go and share his feeling with the croud like skaife (hidden valleys hissy fit) and perkins (just him in general) althoughyou get seto on the pannel show and he says a fair bit most remberd was him reflecting his skyline days when during a practise session his car caught fire and skaife stopped and pulled him out...skaife was dressed in red and he thought right at that moment "I am in hell" the courd loved that re mark...skaife also said "well thats the last timei pull you out of a burning nissan" im not saying he isnt a bad bloke but his aversion to the camera really makes that hard to judge...and i never once made a stab at him as a driver...other then bad taste in catigorys



[/quote]Brock wasn't crucified for driving the Volvo.... The fans love Murp, despite the fact he started out in an (gasp) Audi in Australia. And Radisich wouldn't have the rat nickname if he didn't have a lot of fans. Bradly Jones has his share of fans. And Baird. And, yes, even Morris has a couple of fans. Sure, the top ex-Super Tourer drivers are shunned.... I agree that the second and third rate ex-Super Tourer drivers are shunned, but then so are second and third rate V8 drivers. [/quote]

Brock drovea sierra and a BMW...and he got drilled by the public but a bathurst win later he was totally forguiven by the holden fans...whatch the dick johnson dvd and you see alotof brockys sierra footage also murphs biggest dream was to race Indy in america but he ran out of money in the indy lights....radashich worked for dick Johnson and focused every other effort on the v8s....bradly will always be best remberd for his v8 bathurst gos and also his "silly" move in 1986 when he bought the factory mitsubishi starion which was no longer competative in group a form...Baird has kiwi fans and is likend because of his stint with team brock...the fans went mental when he came 2nd last at bathurst with brock...and it wasnt jeering either....morris...we as i said good driver silly mistakes...well some 2nd rate drivers are poorly labeled...camron mclean comes to mind wayne wakefiel...both sufferd from small budgets and after a few poor results they where forgotten and shunned (like the au falcon v8 super car)

[/quote]And, hey, leave those Porsches alone. They sound great. Look good. And they are a true parity formula - the driver (or the organic component as Lowndes is refered to by FPR) is the most important element. [/quote]
Umm no i will poke and prod them all i like...the sound is dodgey...they look ok...and yes true parity...but i still like formula ford better...also if you want just as much parity go aussie racers....

[/quote]Guess what I'm saying here is there's room for more than one top catagory in Australia. Super-Tourers never set out to topple V8s. Just to provide an outlet for other manufacturers. And you can't blame the Super Tourer management (one Kevin O'Rielly who now works for AVESCO) for going to Bathurst when invited. Not to do so would have ended the class even sooner. Nations Cup and GTP currently fill the role that Super Tourers used to, but costs are more controlled.
Just a reminder on Jimmys stats - Bathurst victories - 7. Australian Touring Car Championships -4 (2 for BMW, 2 for Nissan - the check of the man not to win in a Holden or Ford). Nations Cup/GTP - 4. Porsche Cup - 1. Targa - 7 (from memory - correct me if I'm wrong).
And, just a pointer, four of his Bathurst victories were in Holdens, putting him third behind Brock (9) and Perkins (6) on the list of Holden winners... [/quote]
Costs aremore contolled...the thing i like is its more like groupC and more importantly it holds more intrest as in unhomliglated cars dont suffer as much...look at the gt...oh so its fuel tank stops side exit exaust...a v8 super car style fuel tank will increse safety and allow for this....ohits seriously heavy which is hobbling it....also it puts them up against cars that have a similar scrutenering system and this catigory allows cars to exploit their strentghts and other their weaknesses....the touers still used homliglation...very unlikeable...
As for his stas what can i say...i never did make a dig at him as a driver....

[fpv_gtho]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

most remberd was him reflecting his skyline days when during a practise session his car caught fire and skaife stopped and pulled him out...skaife was dressed in red and he thought right at that moment "I am in hell" the courd loved that re mark...skaife also said "well thats the last timei pull you out of a burning nissan"

well i guess as long as Seto stays out of Nissans, then he should be safe dont u reckon

[motorsportnerd]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Yes seto is...hes also not the kind to have a go and share his feeling with the croud like skaife (hidden valleys hissy fit) and perkins (just him in general) althoughyou get seto on the pannel show and he says a fair bit most remberd was him reflecting his skyline days when during a practise session his car caught fire and skaife stopped and pulled him out...skaife was dressed in red and he thought right at that moment "I am in hell" the courd loved that re mark...skaife also said "well thats the last timei pull you out of a burning nissan" im not saying he isnt a bad bloke but his aversion to the camera really makes that hard to judge...and i never once made a stab at him as a driver...other then bad taste in catigorys ....

Interesting. Didn't see that show... And are you and I watching the same TV channel? I've seen Jim interviewed hundred's of times.. I'll admit he doesn't have a reputation for sitting around signing autographs like Brock though... And true, you didn't make a stab at him as a driver. Guess in my case, I'm defending Jimmy because I've always been a fan of his.

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Brock drovea sierra and a BMW...and he got drilled by the public but a bathurst win later he was totally forguiven by the holden fans...whatch the dick johnson dvd and you see alotof brockys sierra footage

Watch highlights of the 1989 Bathurst 1000 on tape. On the last lap, John Bowe is talking to Mike Raymond over the in car camera. As he went across Skyline he said something like..."blimey, would you look at that. Even the Brock fans are cheering for us now". Brock's fans followed him through all the highs and lows of his career (just as Lownde's now). You'll never fault Brock as a professional. Even the Ford/BMW/Volvo stints did absolutely no harm to his following because Brock always remained fan focussed. And yes, Richard's and many other drivers could've learned something from Brock in this regard. Also, Brock's last Bathurst victory in 1987 was before he went off to drive BMWs and Fords. But, he did return to the fold in 91 as a Holden privateer, and to the factory in '94 as an HRT driver.

Originally Posted by Falcon500

radashich worked for dick Johnson and focused every other effort on the v8s..

Super Touring was always more popular in NZ, primarily because Radisich was one of the top drivers in the BTCC, and kiwis love it just as much as Aussies when one of their own does well. That's also one of the reasons Jim Richards has a much greater fan base in NZ than in Aust. Also, NZ car culture is slightly different. Yes, there is a very strong V8 following. But the mass influx of Japanese second hand imports into NZ from the late 80s on meant that NZ enthusiasts were exposed to the best 16 valvers, turbos and AWDs out of Japan. The high tech image of Super Touring thus caught the imagination of NZ fans more so than Aust fans. A cut down version of Super Touring was popular in NZ for a while in the mid 90s.

Originally Posted by Falcon500

..bradly will always be best remberd for his v8 bathurst gos and also his "silly" move in 1986 when he bought the factory mitsubishi starion which was no longer competative in group a form..

And put the car into the top 10 shoot out in qualifying. Amazing what a couple of Japanese technicians, super sticky Yokohama qualifying tyres and turbo boost wound off the clock could do. Then, the turbo prompt expired during Bradley's top ten shoot out lap....
Brad had a very big crash in a Starion in Japan in 1986 as well. Rolled it several times. Was pretty shaken up. I've heard suggestions that it took a little of the edge off his driving. He was young at the time. That crash may have stopped him making it the very top of Australian motorsport.

[/quote]Umm no i will poke and prod them all i like...the sound is dodgey...they look ok...and yes true parity...but i still like formula ford better...also if you want just as much parity go aussie racers......[/quote]


I was been a little tongue in check. But, yes, I do like the Porsches. For me, they sound great. And those little Aussie racers just look weird

[Falcon500]

Originally Posted by motorsportnerd

Shall we leave a message on the GRM website inviting Garry to come on over and abuse us/answer our questions?
And does Whincup have an enduro drive? Hell, even a Porsche Carrera Cup drive? Or a Konica drive?

Well prehaps i am reading him wrong the media while not slanerding him makes himlook really unlikeable...and i do take back about myprevious comment about him being an unsucessful driver...while not terribly well rembers done quite well in group a and various other catigorys...my previous knowlage of him only refelcted his super sedan days....and my father while didnt like the group a that mcuh still whatched the ATCC and needed a jog to his memory to actually rember who he was "oh him? yeah he done ok....seriously over shawdowed by the factory efforts but there wernt many that out done them"
Dont know about the enduro...but it seems hes not even partof the team anymore....i wouldent be snearing at him if he didnt say he would stand by him...and i have found respect for him as a driver (given new information) and he always had it as an engieneer but as it seems as a person he seems quite unlikeable....
Your more then welcome to invite him or you could send him queastions and post answers...i think the latter is more likly if you wish me to do this i will
Well skaife wouldent leave a mate burning in anything so i think even if he was driveing a nissan he wouldpull him out a second time If setostays out of nissans not only will he not have to fear fires but he also wont have to worriy about stray beer cans

[motorsportnerd]

Originally Posted by Falcon500

Your more then welcome to invite him or you could send him queastions and post answers...i think the latter is more likly if you wish me to do this i will
Well skaife wouldent leave a mate burning in anything so i think even if he was driveing a nissan he wouldpull him out a second time If setostays out of nissans not only will he not have to fear fires but he also wont have to worriy about stray beer cans

I'll think about it. I was half in jest. We really should invite all the V8 team managers plus Tony Cochrane. Also a few drivers. Start up our own little V8 Superstars. In all honesty, I expect they all have better things to do. And I suspect Larry Perkins would be just as rude online as on TV.
Just never invite Mark Coffey (owner of the Coopers Ferrari) to this site. His comments on the Procar website really put me off him.

[Falcon500]

They probly would have better things to do but it cant hurt to asked...the worst youll get is the nices get F***ed letter you would of ever read...any worse then that and id sell it too the media...
But i think some of the konica teams may be willing....prehaps this is a prime oppertunity to get into contact with my great uncle richard mork (who i have never met btw) also prehaps i could get the website some exposure by haveing a chat too morky (who btw owns one of the top 10 motorsport websites in australia http://www.v8racing.com/) never know your luck in the big city eh?

[motorsportnerd]

That's not a bad website. I think some team mechanics and drivers post on the forum there. Maybe an owner of two from Konica? Some of them certainly seem to talk with inside knowledge.

[fpv_gtho]

getting the team officials and Cochrane onto the site could be one of the best things to come to the sport i reckon. it would certainly give Perkins and Rogers a taste of their own medicine and hopefully make them rethink their approach to situations they often engage in. Might even make Cochrane rethink going to china above other places like Laguna Seca, the Nurburgring or any other European tracks (maybe Matra knows some good UK tracks )