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Old 10-27-2010, 06:59 PM
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Kitdy Kitdy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
I wouldn't cite it as the only criteria, but I think it plays an important part. Maybe we need to invent new terms: a 458 or Gallardo or 300SL is a 'super car' while an Enzo or a McLaren F1 is a 'hyper car'.
I disagree - I think hat's revisionist automobile history. I think the hypercar term is either no use or should be reserved for thinly disguised super track cars for the street capable of extreme performance - the Donkervoort whichever, the Radical SR8 LM, the Caparo T1; cars that don't really resemble normal cars and are ridicuoulsy impractical even when compared to supercars. The press has affixed the term hypercar to the Veyron sadly. I think of the Veyron as a Super or Hyper GT (with maybe the 599 GTO being a Super GT?). The Veyron is not entirely about performance, so I have my reservations calling it even a supercar. If it is, it is certainly very atypical of the breed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
A Reventon isn't a supercar because it's just a Murcie with a boob job. And a Ford GT isn't a supercar since it's just a piggly rip off of a GT40, though the GT40 could be considered so.

In no way is a ZR1 a supercar, it's just a hotted up corvette. It's undoubtedly fast, but performance isn't everything or every backyard special with slicks and 800+ hp would be a supercar. A supercar has to be purpose built as a supercar.

I also say a 458 isn't a supercar, it's just a fast (and sexy) sports car. A supercar has to be an oh-my-god range topper. Enzo and Mclaren F1 are proper supercars. By the associative property, since the 458 isn't a supercar, and the LFA is fairly identicle stats wise, the LFA also falls short of the title.

Edit: I think the greatest supercar of the modernish era is the F1 but I voted for the S7 to show it some love since no one else would.
I can dig what you are getting at, but have a few disagreements. I see that there are a few industry standards that I consider supercars. A supercar is the top of the line in it's stable that is above X in performance (X is arbitrary and where things can get messy). The 458 is not a supercar in my eyes - it's a very high end sportscar. The Enzo sucessor will be a supercar. The F430 Scuderia was not a supercar, the Enzo was. The 458 cannot be a supercar as Ferrari have a crazier model hovering above it. The 458 may perform as well as or better than an Enzo, but that is sheerly because of the advancement of the industry. Ferrari's next supercar will obliterate even it.

I consider the Reventon a supercar as I think the Murcielago (sorta) is. If not the base model, then probably the 640 and certainly the SV - thus I think the Reventon is. These Murcies can run with an Enzo, a Zonda, a Koenigsegg.

I believe the ZR1 is a supercar (I wouuld say with hesitatncy - more on this later). It contends with many of these cars, has similar weight and power, and can keep up on the track. The thing that gives me pause here is that it is that the C6 is available in so many guises - the base Corvette is just a through and through sportscar, the Z06 high end - this infers to me that the ZR1 is a supercar, but if it's not purpose built, then is it really? I'd say yes, but I can see how you disagree.

The GT-R is kinda a super GT, very high end sportscar, and supercar. I am not sure which; I have reservations about calling it a supercar because of it's cheap price and it's lower power. I don't think my own reservations are valid in the end though, but I am hesitant - even if I shouldn't be. I suppose it is too.

The Ford GT's issue is it wasn't really up to the handling of it's contemporaries. By this I mostly mean what my buddy and me used to call the trifecta - the big three supercars from the big three manufacturers that all fought it out at the same time (sick times by the way) - the Enzo, the SLR, and the CGT. I would place it in the supercar category myselft I think - it represented the pinnacle of Ford's engineering and was a halo car (something a supercar must also be).

The Miura is about as supercar as a supercar (especially from that era) can get. I've read it was the first modern car to have the term affixed to it (however "super car" had been used in ads in the early 1900s according to the source of all knowledge). The Miura is an icon of epic proportions. Offhand, I'd say it could shame every production car for sale at it's release at the track - barring potentially a 427 Cobra.

What production street legal stock car could take a Miura to school at the racetrack in 1966? Or an SV in the early 70s?
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