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View Poll Results: what is your fav supercar
Aston Martin One-77 0 0%
Zenvo ST1 0 0%
Bugatti Veyron Super Sport 1 7.14%
Saleen S7 1 7.14%
Ferrari 599 GTO 1 7.14%
Ferrari 458 Italia 1 7.14%
Ford GT 1 7.14%
Porsche Carrera GT 0 0%
Koenigsegg Agera 1 7.14%
Pagani Zonda Cinque Roadster 1 7.14%
Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera 1 7.14%
Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 SuperVeloce 0 0%
Lexus LFA 1 7.14%
McLaren F1 4 28.57%
2010 Noble M600 1 7.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16  
Old 10-27-2010, 01:06 AM
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what people need to Remember is that if had put down the cars you wanted me to put in the poll like the (f40) I would have to sacrifice other cars like the m600 then other people would wouldn’t be happy at me doing that at me doing that ether.
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2010, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by thebrochureman View Post
what people need to Remember is that if had put down the cars you wanted me to put in the poll like the (f40) I would have to sacrifice other cars like the m600 then other people would wouldn’t be happy at me doing that at me doing that ether.
Which goes to show you that making a 15-choices poll to select one car among hundreds is impossible, and it requires the poll to be designed about something more specific, with a theme or a reason why some cars are in and some are out. If it was just to include cars people may like, each member would create a thread with a 1-choice poll with his own favorite choice period. Which, make no mistakes, they don't.

Expressing an almost blind preference is quite pointless and isn't adding something to anything if not bad karma to your name here. Worth being noted, we don't have karma points in this forum, but yours wouldn't be so healthy by the look of things.

You can create as many threads as necessary with all sort of polls, just try as much as you can to add arguments and reasons why we should bother, why we should contribute, and why you decided some cars over the others. I feel the need to underline the "YOU DECIDED" as the polls are yours at the end of the day. So why do you consider the Noble M600 a supercar, and why didn't you add the F40, F50 or Enzo? It's a genuine question, no sarcasm or phun here.

Why is the Zonda Cinque so important in your book? Why you considered the McLaren F1 but any of his counterparts?

When supercars appeared on the market, and what do you consider as essential aspects a car must have to be considered a supercar?

Do you consider pre-war cars to be supercars'

ETC ETC ETC

Not seen all the posts you've done while I wasn't here, but I've the feeling I just wrote much more words than what you may have done so far.

If you have a potential, don't waste it this way, as you can see members are already getting annoyed.
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  #18  
Old 10-27-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
Delahaye 135 then, see avatar on the left.

The Miura is indeed super, but not in the "supercar" way. It surely was among the fastest thing you could buy, but the point is actually something over the competition in term of look (not saying it looks better, which it maybe does), technical solutions and so on.
Even if I reckon this would call in the Reventòn, I think that car suffers from poor execution and worse marketing. Just saw one this Sunday, don't know which number but I'll check my pics, and it wasn't as interesting as the two Miuras next to it or as the Diablo GT. Thats another super car.
Unfortunately the SV670-4 lacks this same flavor.
Well actually I would say that the aspects you higlight to say the Miura isn't really a supercar are high points of the car from Sant'Agata.

First the styling. I think we can all agree that it is a beautiful looking car and in 1966 like nothing else in the road. The pop-up head lamps, the doors shaped like horns of a bull and so on. A masterpiece and very striking.

The the engineering. Well it may have been flawed, but a mid mounted tranverse V12 was quite revolutionary in the middle of the sixties, wasn't it? Furthermore in SV form it was quite top of the line, with 385bhp performance wasn't exactly lacking.

And then there's the exclusivity of it and the sheer desirability factor which I'd say is quite high. So definitely a proper supercar in my book.

(However I agree that defining car categories is a grey area)
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  #19  
Old 10-27-2010, 10:05 AM
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I'm not sure if I'd consider the Miura a supercar simply because it's what became the present V12 line from Lamborghini, like the Murcielago, which I don't consider a supercar.

Of course 50 years ago or so things were to be considered a bit differently.
Then again there still were some race cars drivable on the road, which probably would make those super cars. Who cares, just two days ago I was wondering if I prefer a shocking green Miura or an orange one.
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  #20  
Old 10-27-2010, 01:37 PM
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I don't consider Miura a supercar because it was genesis for the mid-engine flamboyant Lamborghini V12 cars. Altough I consider those supercars as well. The Murcielago especially is the last of a line, an old-schooler.

However imagine this. You are in 1966. You live in Modena and you drive a Fiat 850 Super with 37bhp and a top speed of 125km/h. Your idea of a high performance sportscar is a Ferrari 275 GTB with a 280bhp V12 engine or a straight six engined 255bhp Maserati Mistral. Both were conventional front engined cars and the Maserati even had a live rear axle.

And then along comes a car with the engine mounted in the middle behind the seats, with the gearbox and engine sharing the same oil à la Mini because there wasn't much space. With a striking body and a 350bhp V12 engine. A car that wasn't derived from race car or related to one in any way.

The Miura for itself could be considered a supercar. History is important, but in its time it was something quite special indeed.
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  #21  
Old 10-27-2010, 03:10 PM
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If the Miura is a supercar, what's a Ford GT40 then?
Surely the Miura was over the competition.

Screw names, give me one.
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Last edited by LeonOfTheDead; 10-28-2010 at 06:18 AM. Reason: FORD GT =/= FORD GT40
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  #22  
Old 10-27-2010, 03:30 PM
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There is no Wiesmann GT MF5 in the poll
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  #23  
Old 10-27-2010, 05:40 PM
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I'm sorry guys, but why are you bashing on the Ford GT? It was, admittedly, a great car. It had great power, great torque (more than almost every great European Super Car) and was stupid fast. Even for a Ford. I don't doubt its place in the polls.

Whats odd (to me at least) is that the ZR1 isn't up their. It will butt**** ALOT of Supercars on this list, and can hang with a couple hyper cars no doubt (the Old SLR comes to mind).
And we can't forget it held the Nurburgring record for a while, topping almost everything on the list.

I'll make a separate thread for American Super Cars.
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  #24  
Old 10-27-2010, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
Not sure if "limited" and "super" are supposed to be the same. A limited edition Lotus Exige (not considering stickers and different paint jobs) doesn't make it any mroe "super" despite surely being capable of more powerful and famous cars.

Super, in my book, is something that's definitely not necessary, over the line. Now that I think about it, it's very similar to the latin meaning of the word.
I wouldn't cite it as the only criteria, but I think it plays an important part. Maybe we need to invent new terms: a 458 or Gallardo or 300SL is a 'super car' while an Enzo or a McLaren F1 is a 'hyper car'.
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  #25  
Old 10-27-2010, 06:26 PM
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A Reventon isn't a supercar because it's just a Murcie with a boob job. And a Ford GT isn't a supercar since it's just a piggly rip off of a GT40, though the GT40 could be considered so.

In no way is a ZR1 a supercar, it's just a hotted up corvette. It's undoubtedly fast, but performance isn't everything or every backyard special with slicks and 800+ hp would be a supercar. A supercar has to be purpose built as a supercar.

I also say a 458 isn't a supercar, it's just a fast (and sexy) sports car. A supercar has to be an oh-my-god range topper. Enzo and Mclaren F1 are proper supercars. By the associative property, since the 458 isn't a supercar, and the LFA is fairly identicle stats wise, the LFA also falls short of the title.

Edit: I think the greatest supercar of the modernish era is the F1 but I voted for the S7 to show it some love since no one else would.
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  #26  
Old 10-27-2010, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
I wouldn't cite it as the only criteria, but I think it plays an important part. Maybe we need to invent new terms: a 458 or Gallardo or 300SL is a 'super car' while an Enzo or a McLaren F1 is a 'hyper car'.
I disagree - I think hat's revisionist automobile history. I think the hypercar term is either no use or should be reserved for thinly disguised super track cars for the street capable of extreme performance - the Donkervoort whichever, the Radical SR8 LM, the Caparo T1; cars that don't really resemble normal cars and are ridicuoulsy impractical even when compared to supercars. The press has affixed the term hypercar to the Veyron sadly. I think of the Veyron as a Super or Hyper GT (with maybe the 599 GTO being a Super GT?). The Veyron is not entirely about performance, so I have my reservations calling it even a supercar. If it is, it is certainly very atypical of the breed.

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Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
A Reventon isn't a supercar because it's just a Murcie with a boob job. And a Ford GT isn't a supercar since it's just a piggly rip off of a GT40, though the GT40 could be considered so.

In no way is a ZR1 a supercar, it's just a hotted up corvette. It's undoubtedly fast, but performance isn't everything or every backyard special with slicks and 800+ hp would be a supercar. A supercar has to be purpose built as a supercar.

I also say a 458 isn't a supercar, it's just a fast (and sexy) sports car. A supercar has to be an oh-my-god range topper. Enzo and Mclaren F1 are proper supercars. By the associative property, since the 458 isn't a supercar, and the LFA is fairly identicle stats wise, the LFA also falls short of the title.

Edit: I think the greatest supercar of the modernish era is the F1 but I voted for the S7 to show it some love since no one else would.
I can dig what you are getting at, but have a few disagreements. I see that there are a few industry standards that I consider supercars. A supercar is the top of the line in it's stable that is above X in performance (X is arbitrary and where things can get messy). The 458 is not a supercar in my eyes - it's a very high end sportscar. The Enzo sucessor will be a supercar. The F430 Scuderia was not a supercar, the Enzo was. The 458 cannot be a supercar as Ferrari have a crazier model hovering above it. The 458 may perform as well as or better than an Enzo, but that is sheerly because of the advancement of the industry. Ferrari's next supercar will obliterate even it.

I consider the Reventon a supercar as I think the Murcielago (sorta) is. If not the base model, then probably the 640 and certainly the SV - thus I think the Reventon is. These Murcies can run with an Enzo, a Zonda, a Koenigsegg.

I believe the ZR1 is a supercar (I wouuld say with hesitatncy - more on this later). It contends with many of these cars, has similar weight and power, and can keep up on the track. The thing that gives me pause here is that it is that the C6 is available in so many guises - the base Corvette is just a through and through sportscar, the Z06 high end - this infers to me that the ZR1 is a supercar, but if it's not purpose built, then is it really? I'd say yes, but I can see how you disagree.

The GT-R is kinda a super GT, very high end sportscar, and supercar. I am not sure which; I have reservations about calling it a supercar because of it's cheap price and it's lower power. I don't think my own reservations are valid in the end though, but I am hesitant - even if I shouldn't be. I suppose it is too.

The Ford GT's issue is it wasn't really up to the handling of it's contemporaries. By this I mostly mean what my buddy and me used to call the trifecta - the big three supercars from the big three manufacturers that all fought it out at the same time (sick times by the way) - the Enzo, the SLR, and the CGT. I would place it in the supercar category myselft I think - it represented the pinnacle of Ford's engineering and was a halo car (something a supercar must also be).

The Miura is about as supercar as a supercar (especially from that era) can get. I've read it was the first modern car to have the term affixed to it (however "super car" had been used in ads in the early 1900s according to the source of all knowledge). The Miura is an icon of epic proportions. Offhand, I'd say it could shame every production car for sale at it's release at the track - barring potentially a 427 Cobra.

What production street legal stock car could take a Miura to school at the racetrack in 1966? Or an SV in the early 70s?
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  #27  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:17 PM
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Okay, so everyone has a slightly different idea of what a supercar is or should be, but nothing from what I've seen is THE right definition to go by.
For example, in Nissan's Canadian brochure they categorize all their models by truck, sedan, compact, sports car, and believe it or not supercar (can you guess which) and so on and so forth.
Would this forum give the title of "supercar" to the GT-R? I think not. Not unless of course we are in fact using "range topper" as the proper credentials, in which case you could consider cars like the ZR1 and GT2 supercars as well, which again most people (here) would probably reject.
"Supercar" and ESPECIALLY "SPORTScar" are both used very broadly and excessively. Its the same with various manufacturers tossing the 'GT' badge around like its going out of style. Example, you can find both the term "sportscar" and a 'GT' badge tacked to cars like the Tiburon and Celica, which are nothing but FWD sporty(ish) compact/hatchbacks, and by no means proper "sportscar(s)". Where does one honestly draw the line??
Before my A.D.D. kicks in, let me put it in plain english: this could be a never ending debate.
I myself was completely at home calling a 360 Modena (sorry I had to) a supercar, not because I wanted to give it that title, but because naturally I didn't think it was right to categorize a Ferrari as "sportscar", which is what people refer to their Golf GTis as.
If a "supercar" is in fact this outerwordly automotive being of supreme status, then it is not what Nissan (an actual car manufacturer who should technically have more credibility than us) would be refering to their GT-R (that I see way too many of) as. Unless of course they know they're out of place and are only trying to give their surgeon/lawyer target market something to write home about. Which is it?
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  #28  
Old 10-28-2010, 02:43 AM
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Bugatti unequivocally the coolest supercar, but his price is very high.
Lamborghini is more adequate for the ratio between the performance-style/cost.
Corvette ZR1, very impressive.
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  #29  
Old 10-28-2010, 05:12 AM
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My personal definition of a supercar is quite easy compared to yours. Take high power, an unusual design, good performance on the track and a low production run and you get a supercar.
In my personal opinion, there should be only one one hypercar at a time which is the absolute apex of what's technically possible at the moment. The McLaren F1 was such a car, and the Veyron SS is it now. Or to put it simple: hypercars are cars that make people say "WTF???" when they are presented.
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  #30  
Old 10-28-2010, 06:21 AM
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In my personal opinion, there should be only one one hypercar at a time which is the absolute apex of what's technically possible at the moment.
The absolute apex of the vortex of (joint?) engineering?
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