Is Infiniti what BMW Used to Be?

[LeonOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Now, to the main subject. And the answer in my opinion is no. Mainly because their cars are completely different. Infinitis are far too big, heavy, powerful and complicated to be BMWs. They only have one engine choice and only one of their models can be had with manual gearboxes. Their smallest and lightest car is almost as big as a 5 Series and weights 1780kg. That’s more than 100kg more than an M3. And finally, they start for thousands more than the cheapest BMW. Now I’m not saying that they can’t be good sports saloons, just that they are not BMWs. They are something else.

TBH, the G37 is 25 cm longer, 79 kg (1.535 VS 1.616) heavier and 10 kW more powerful than a 335i, while being 2.000 € cheaper. In Italy that is.
Not a bad competitor.
Talking about the M37, it's 45 kg lighter, 10 kW more powerful than a 535i. Same price and length. The automatic transmission is probably adding a few kilograms to the Infiniti, and I honestly believe it isn't really a problem not having a manual in this segment.

So I don't see why I shouldn't consider Infiniti as a strong competitor.

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Furthermore, I disagree that BMW has to be erased completely from an enthusiast’s list. It is true that they’ve done several abortions, but so have many other car makers, and if we are honest the car industry has evolved from the olden days.

Which is way many other car makers should be erased completely from an enthusiast's list.

Originally Posted by Ferrer

It is also true that M cars are less focused than they used to be. But even so, if you want a reasonably priced, superb handling sports saloons it still is hard to beat a BMW. And anyone that isn’t convinced should drive one.

BMW may still be good cars to drive (some of them), but that isn't enough to make them as appealing as they were about 10 years ago. And since opinions may vary quite a lot, I don't really see why one shouldn't consider other options. Even more considering that 99% of BMW buyers are not going to discover 99% of the cars' capabilities, so for many of them a Jaguar XF, an Infiniti and other cars may be better options, providing just as much pleasure of owning and driving and possibly providing also characteristics more interesting for the average owner on a daily basis. Unfortunately, the average owner also want a brand he can show off about, and Infiniti is not in that position right now, in Europe/Italy at least.

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Just read the article on Cameron's link.


This man clearly doesn't understand BMWs. That pretty much invalidates everything else, in my opinion.

Why that?

[RacingManiac]

BTW, John le Blanc is one of the worst automotive writer working for Toronto Star....he writes pointless articles all the time...

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by RacingManiac

BTW, John le Blanc is one of the worst automotive writer working for Toronto Star....he writes pointless articles all the time...

I haven't read any automotive journalist that writes for a newspaper that I write.

That being said, I have only really read car reviews from The Star and The Globe.

I find the reviews are just more oriented to casual, non-enthusiast car fans.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

TBH, the G37 is 25 cm longer, 79 kg (1.535 VS 1.616) heavier and 10 kW more powerful than a 335i, while being 2.000 € cheaper. In Italy that is.
Not a bad competitor.
Talking about the M37, it's 45 kg lighter, 10 kW more powerful than a 535i. Same price and length. The automatic transmission is probably adding a few kilograms to the Infiniti, and I honestly believe it isn't really a problem not having a manual in this segment.

So I don't see why I shouldn't consider Infiniti as a strong competitor.

BMW may still be good cars to drive (some of them), but that isn't enough to make them as appealing as they were about 10 years ago. And since opinions may vary quite a lot, I don't really see why one shouldn't consider other options. Even more considering that 99% of BMW buyers are not going to discover 99% of the cars' capabilities, so for many of them a Jaguar XF, an Infiniti and other cars may be better options, providing just as much pleasure of owning and driving and possibly providing also characteristics more interesting for the average owner on a daily basis. Unfortunately, the average owner also want a brand he can show off about, and Infiniti is not in that position right now, in Europe/Italy at least.

Undoubtedly there are many competent sports saloons out there. And I quite like Infinitis. But especially the Jag, as most know I drive one occasionally, and it is a great sports saloon. But we are not discussing wheter there are alternatives in the market to BMW, which there are, but if Inifniti has become BMW, which it hasn't in my opinion.

There are two reasons for that. On is that Inifniti has a very small lineup. In the 20 to 40 grand segment, BMW still reigns supreme, basically because there's no alternative to be had whatsoever. Only Mercedes-Benz and Lexus have tried to enter that territory, and still are no match for BMW.

And then there are the big Bimmers. You argue, for instance, that manuals are not important in a car the size of a 5 Series, and I agree with that, there's little market for them, especially outside Europe. But, again, we are not talking about the segment, we are talking about BMW, and a 5er than can't be had with a manual just isn't a worthy Bimmer. And, I reckon this has changed as time has passed, you can still have a big Bimmer with relatively few toys (at least the 5, not sure about the 7).

So no, for me the best BMW still is a BMW.

Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead

Why that?

Precisely, because one of BMWs strong points has always been, discreet, subtle and even arguably boring styling. Take some of BMWs all time greats, the 2002, the E9, E24, E28, E30, or the E39. Slight variations aside, they are little more than boxes on wheels. Some of them can be called handsome, but not daring, creative or different. Criticising BMW for returning to the classic subtle teutonic design is completely missing the point.

[henk4]

next year it will be 50 years ago since BMW presented the 1500. Ever since all their models are basically the same. (apart from the X contraptions).