2012 Indianapolis 500

[kingofthering]

Did anyone see the Indy 500? Amazing win for Dario Franchitti under interesting circumstances especially considering the tumble he took in pit lane during the first round of stops.

Franchitti drove a good race (dead last to first) but I think Sato was the biggest surprise. I hope he comes back next year. Having Bobby Rahal's guidance is definitely good; here's to hoping he doesn't Paul Tracy his way onto everybody's sh*tlist. That was a bit of a bad move diving to the inside of Franchitti like that. If not for that, I think there was a good chance it would be his face on the Borg-Warner.

The Andretti curse continued as Marco loses it big time; he and Will Power were the biggest "losers" of the race being heavy favorites. Marco probably had a chance but Will Power was just plain unlucky, tangling with Mike Conway.

[culver]

It was a good race. I was there in person. Very good to see Kanaan lead for a while. He clearly, and rightly, is a fan favorite. Marco... not so much. Sadly the lack of coverage is further evidence of the race's fall from grace. The F1 circus has done a great job of convincing people that it's the greatest racing show around. I disagree and really with the screwy rules they have they can't even claim they represent the ultimate in race car design. Unscrew the rules and they might have cars that look more like the junior racing series that don't suffer from such screwy rules.

Anyway, it was great to be there in person this year.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by culver

It was a good race. I was there in person. Very good to see Kanaan lead for a while. He clearly, and rightly, is a fan favorite. Marco... not so much. Sadly the lack of coverage is further evidence of the race's fall from grace. The F1 circus has done a great job of convincing people that it's the greatest racing show around. I disagree and really with the screwy rules they have they can't even claim they represent the ultimate in race car design. Unscrew the rules and they might have cars that look more like the junior racing series that don't suffer from such screwy rules.

Anyway, it was great to be there in person this year.

any pictures?

[Dino Scuderia]

The new cars are hard to watch without getting nauseous, much like the nose on current F1 cars...only more so. That's really a shame because the cars are lighter and faster on road courses now, the previous chassis was a dog.

IMO if they want to pretend racing can be a safe sport they should use the new ugly cars for ovals and traditional open wheel design for road courses for under 200mph racing.

That aside they are still doing incredible speeds and taking incredible risks which still deserves the coverage....at least as much as Dario's wife gets at the track. I have been to that facility twice to see F1 races but never to see Indy, ovals just don't excite me...but I usually watch the 500 on TV. At least it had another exciting ending.

[faksta]

I like new IndyCars and even started to like new F1s now - already got used to those ducknoses.

But agree with you on ovals - I can't get enough pleasure watching them racing on ovals. While it is probably a bigger challenge for drivers, for me they're boring to follow. So I'm pretty happy with IC moving to mostly road courses.

[culver]

The new "chassis" isn't bad looking. The sidepods are the real dog part. A friend who worked with Sarah Fisher was telling me that the current sidepods were just the demo parts but they didn't have time to design better units so that's what they stuck with. Hopefully they will get better next year. From the back the cars actually look quite good. You can tell they have a very narrow chassis with low wide sidepods. Thanks to the rear bumper behind the rear tires they look somewhat like modern LMP cars. The rear view also hides the ugly, curved section of the sidepod just in front of the rear tires. From the sides and 3/4 view the large section of sidepod in front of the rear tires is just horrid. Basically the fundamental chassis has real potential but it's lost with the current aero package. It does appear that the rules makers got one thing they wanted, the cars are very stable in draft and traffic. The result was lots of passing and even Dario and Dixon trading places to move faster than either could have alone. Given Carson Daly's wreck at Monaco I wonder if the F1 and F3000 guys will decide that the rear bumpers are a good (if ugly) idea.

I don't really like the airbox given these are turbo cars. My understanding is they stuck with the airbox to allow more install options for the engines. It also allows the engines to run air filters.

Ovals vs road has always been a point of discussion. I appreciate both but I also understand that ultimately ovals are harder (less forgiving). I grew up going to road courses and generally prefer them but once you understand the ovals they are really cool. Part of it is the speed. You really notice that in person. Remember that even these slower IRL cars are going faster than F1 cars due to the high speed nature of the track. You also can see how they set up the passes with the ovals quite nicely. I agree the old chassis was a dog. Really the late 90s CART chassis were my favorites. I would like to see the series do both ovals and roads as that's on of the things that made the old series great. It also highlights that each takes a different skill set. To master both is truly rare.

In this article you can see the aero package that was run and the one that I guess is for road courses.
The Indycars that never were | Racecar Engineering

Here is a view where the cars look very Speedracer... in a bad way
Sato Was Three Turns From Potential Victory In The Indy 500 :: PaddockTalk :: F1, Formula 1, NASCAR, IndyCar, MotoGP, ALMS, And More!

In this view you can see that outside of the tires the sidepods are actually very low and don't have to look bad.
2012 Indianapolis (Indy 500): IndyCar Carb Day Results - Franchitti, Honda Fastest! :: PaddockTalk :: F1, Formula 1, NASCAR, IndyCar, MotoGP, ALMS, And More!

[Dino Scuderia]

I like the Swift design.

As the current design is they should just put fenders on all around and not call it open wheel anymore. It's a poorly conceived knee-jerk contraption that hopefully will get resolved next season as you eluded to. No angle of the car looks good...and bad looking cars can hurt a series....just look at how Grand Am is turning heads with the new better looking DP's.

[Kitdy]

As IRL was mostly ovals, I figured that after the merger, most circuits would be ovals. They were, but I like that they are going to more road courses. Ovals are not my favourite thing, and I will only watch some big events (Daytona, Indy, Talladega maybe, and if the title comes down to an oval in Indy or some chase races in NASCAR).

[culver]

I think they MIGHT be moving back to road courses in part because many of the ovals were designed for NASCAR. As Las Vegas tragically demonstrated high banked ovals that work for NASCAR don't always work for these cars. Road courses are a reasonable alternative. I'm not sure what the split is between road courses and street circuits (actually racing on streets). I think Monaco is the only street circuit left on the F1 calendar.

[faksta]

Originally Posted by culver

I think Monaco is the only street circuit left on the F1 calendar.

In fact, more than that - Monaco, Valencia, Singapore, to some extent Montreal and Albert Park. Think I haven't forgotten anything.

Also, just watched the race finish... Wow, Sato could have had that one!

P.S. Having watched a couple times more, to me it seems like completely Franchitti's fault...

[culver]

Well that's what I get for finding it hard to care about F1 anymore

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by culver

Well that's what I get for finding it hard to care about F1 anymore

To any lapsed F1 fan, I highly suggest you check out this year's racing.

Most street courses are bleh; Valencia is brutal, Singapore I haven't watched fully but beside it being at night I have heard it being a drag, Monaco has no passing but it is a beautiful race to watch and is a crazy anachronism.

CGV has somewhat limited passing areas but always seems to produce a cracker of a race for F1, and there have been some epic Nationwide races there as well (including NASCAR's first ever wet/wet tire race). Albert Park is also great.

[culver]

I'm happy to see F1 is finally racing again. However, so long as they require each team to have it's own chassis (no customer chassis), and have rules resulting in such ugly cars I still find it hard to care. Part of the problem is I would like F1 (and/or Indy) to be the ultimate expression of a race car's design. In the old days that was generally true of both series. Indy however, is now not much more than a spec series. F1 isn't spec but the rules have evolved such that we have solutions that, outside of a very odd set of rules, make no sense. The very high noses and balloon tires are not so much by choice as by rules. Another example would be the steep downward angle of the front A-arms. Other race cars (even LMP and Indy/Cart) don't do that because they have different aero rules that result in a bit more balance between the needs of aero and the needs of mechanical grip.

Of course, I would also love to see F1 race on just a few ovals. While I actually prefer road courses, I have enough appreciate of ovals to feel that you can't be the "ultimate" racing series if you don't have at least a few ovals. Remember that Indy used to be part of the GP circuit.

This BTW, is why I was so fond of the CART cars. They represented what I really liked in racing. You could run your own chassis or buy one. The rules hadn't evolved to the point that otherwise silly designs (the ATV like tires of the modern F1 cars and the resulting very skewed suspension designs) occurred. They were also just good looking.

[Kitdy]

Originally Posted by culver

Of course, I would also love to see F1 race on just a few ovals. While I actually prefer road courses, I have enough appreciate of ovals to feel that you can't be the "ultimate" racing series if you don't have at least a few ovals. Remember that Indy used to be part of the GP circuit.

F1 is not an oval racing series at all, and the cars are not designed to race on ovals, nor should they.

When the Indy 500 was a part of the championship, it was rarely seriously contested by F1 teams, and I don't have a problem with that. Ovals are an American phenomenon, and IndyCar and NASCAR have them covered well.

[culver]

Originally Posted by Kitdy

F1 is not an oval racing series at all, and the cars are not designed to race on ovals, nor should they.

When the Indy 500 was a part of the championship, it was rarely seriously contested by F1 teams, and I don't have a problem with that. Ovals are an American phenomenon, and IndyCar and NASCAR have them covered well.

But why not race on ovals? I understand that the current cars are not safe on ovals but I see no reason why they couldn't in the future. As I said, I don't think a racing series can truly claim to be "the best" unless it shows it can master more than one track type. The same is true of the drivers. CART showed that many of the F1 drivers, while good on ovals, weren't the oval masters. Look at someone like Mears who was clearly the master of the oval in the 1980s. Furthermore, Europe had ovals and in the early days of Indy was very much involved with the 500.

Anyway, I don't seriously expect F1 to go to ovals. If nothing else Europe is perhaps even worse than the US when dealing with "not invented here". The inclusion of ovals is one of the reasons why I considered CART of the 1980s and early 90s to be perhaps a greater series than F1. They showed a level of versatility in ability that F1 cars simply lacked.