The Technical Questions Thread

[pimento]

I6s: Mercedes Benz (vast amounts), Aston Martin, TVR, Bentley (?) Triumph, MG, Austin (et all..), Kia/Hyundai (some older KDM stuff), Volvo, Holden, Ford (still do in Aus), AMC/Jeep.. a bunch of pre-war things.. probably some more.

I8s: The MB 300SLR and its equivalent F1 car used them, right?

[csl177]

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

Two part question-

1. Other than Jaguar, BMW, Toyota/Lexus and Nissan, what other companies have used straight 6 engines?

(Side note- it's a shame that only BMW uses straight 6s now, and even rarer than ever.)

Nearly every large auto manufacturer that ever existed has built or used I6's at some time or another. It is a shame only BMW still does, they're smooth and powerful. But modern packaging and small engine technology has made the inline 6 less attractive to most car makers.

Originally Posted by NSXType-R

2. Straight 8s- other than Deusenburg, what other car companies used straight 8s?

Alfa Romeo, Auburn, Bugatti, Buick, Chandler, Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge, Gardner, Hispano Suiza, Hudson, Isotta-Fraschini, LaSalle, Leyland, Locomobile, Mercedes, Miller, Nash, Oldsmobile, Pierce Arrow, Peerless, Packard, Pontiac, Scripps, Sterns-Knight, Studebaker... and many others.

The last great straight 8 was from Mercedes, used in the W196 and 300SLR.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by csl177

Nearly every large auto manufacturer that ever existed has built or used I6's at some time or another. It is a shame only BMW still does, they're smooth and powerful. But modern packaging and small engine technology has made the inline 6 less attractive to most car makers.

Volvo still does as well. Curiously, in a front-tranverse engined car, where packaging should indeed be a problem.

[pimento]

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Volvo still does as well. Curiously, in a front-tranverse engined car, where packaging should indeed be a problem.

Which is also how the KDM stuff was, if my memory serves me correctly. 2.0 I6es.

[Big time]

Are there cars with 2 brake discs per wheel?

At least for the front wheels?

[culver]

While many pine over the demise of the I6, I don't see a good I6 as better than a good V6. BMW marketing has done a great job but in the end the I6 is a poorly packaged engine. I suspect if BMW put the same effort into a V6 we would love it just as much. The I vs V is secondary compared to the many details we don't see on the spec sheet.

I don't know of any production cars with twin discs but the idea was considered by Delphi and Haldex. I don't know if Dephi's system made it to any cars. The Haldex system reportedly made it to some heavy trucks

Delphi Does A Double in Braking - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

[Matra et Alpine]

I never saw the Delphi proposal as workable in real world deapite their paper saying they had 10 year equivalent salt/corrosion tests pass.

The centre pad in the Delphi system was double sided. All three pads floated and able to move on braking and release back off pad on removal of pedal effort.

The discs moved on sliding splines on a hub carrier so they take up wear too.

Given we've all had sticky pads then frankly I cant see how they thought they'd stop sticky discs (rotors) too !!!

Also anyone who's had a clutch pack on a motorbike catastrophically fail on them and the mess it leaves probably will be as suspicious as me on it's viability The thought of that happening to something as critical as a brake disc (rotor) will forever make people sceptical

[henk4]

Originally Posted by culver

While many pine over the demise of the I6, I don't see a good I6 as better than a good V6. BMW marketing has done a great job but in the end the I6 is a poorly packaged engine. I suspect if BMW put the same effort into a V6 we would love it just as much. The I vs V is secondary compared to the many details we don't see on the spec sheet.

Last year Aston Martin proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that an I-6 has fundamental weaknesses when stressed hard. Nobody else than Uwe Baretsky,questioned their choice in puiblic, and he had learned from epxerience. He was the head of the BMW racing department when they tried to squeeze as many HP out of their I-6 as possible.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by pimento

Which is also how the KDM stuff was, if my memory serves me correctly. 2.0 I6es.

2.5 litre versions as well, if I'm not mistaken.

It was always on my radar, if only for being the most affordable straight six engined car on the market. I fear the rest of it was rubbish though...

Originally Posted by culver

While many pine over the demise of the I6, I don't see a good I6 as better than a good V6. BMW marketing has done a great job but in the end the I6 is a poorly packaged engine. I suspect if BMW put the same effort into a V6 we would love it just as much. The I vs V is secondary compared to the many details we don't see on the spec sheet.

None of the V6s I've driven felt quite as satisfactory as a standard (lets not even get started with M-fettled versions) BMW straight six engine. Wheter this is down to the layout or BMW I don't know, but that's my personal experience.

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by culver

While many pine over the demise of the I6, I don't see a good I6 as better than a good V6. BMW marketing has done a great job but in the end the I6 is a poorly packaged engine. I suspect if BMW put the same effort into a V6 we would love it just as much. The I vs V is secondary compared to the many details we don't see on the spec sheet.

if ford aus drops the I6 and it's turbo variants for the US made v6 ecoboost etc i'll be interested to see the direct comparison!

[NSXType-R]

Somewhat similar to the other question I asked- how much is the Lotus Rebellion LMP1 car a Toyota.

How much of a Honda was the McLaren MP4/4 that Prost and Senna drove?

Did development with Honda end with just the engine and McLaren did everything else?

[RacingManiac]

They are engine supplier....A Lola can have Judd/HPD/Toyota...etc engine mounted in the back...Companies like Lola, Oreca...etc makes their cars such that it suits what engines are available out there, as each customer who buys a Lola, Oreca, whatever might have different reason to use different engine(sponsorship, preference...etc). There are probably some custom bits that needs to be different between engines used, but the general layout is fixed to the car. There are cars thats more specific, like the HPD/Wirth car only uses HPD engine as its designed specifically for it, but even historically there has been precedence that people might be able to change it....see Ferrari 333SP that was powered by a Judd V10....The Lola Rebellion does have a bespoked aero package last season for the Lola that was developed for the car via the team itself...with some input and funding from Toyota, but the 2012 car AFAIK is a Lola kit...

The F1 cars are a bit more specific, but McLaren designed and built the car to suit the engine supplied by Honda. Same as how Sauber/Ferrari/STR uses Ferrari engine or Red Bull/Lotus/Caterham uses Renault engine, but the cars are completely different.

[Matra et Alpine]

Honda did engine and nothing else.
For the engine see attached

[Magnum9987]

Does anyone have any good technical papers on the Rochester Quadrajet?
(I've already searched google and found a couple good papers but was looking for a little more?)

[NSXType-R]

Thank you for your answers, RacingManiac and Matra!