The State of The Car

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by culver

What's the price of a MINI Roadster vs MX-5? Personally I think the MINI Roadster is hideous but the standard MINI cabrio is fine. It wouldn't surprise me if the MINI cabrio has taken some sales from Mazda. The MX-5 was well placed when it came out because it could be sold both to the driver who appreciated the chassis and to the Sunday "cute convertible" driver. The MINI cabrio is perhaps not as good a chassis, though no slouch, but the MX-5 is one of the few cars that is less practical in terms of cargo space. I mean you can at least claim the MINI will seat 4. I would say you could put kids in the back but in the US that typically is not allowed without child seats. While infant seats are a significant safety feature, seats for younger kids aren't really of significant value. They represent legislation without ration.

Here:

Mini Cooper Roadster (122bhp) 23.700€
Mini Cooper S Roadster (184bhp) 28.750€

Mazda MX-5 1.8i Soft Top (126bhp) 24.000€
Mazda MX-5 1.8i RC (126bhp) 26.550€
Mazda MX-5 2.0i RC (160bhp) 33.950€

Mini Cooper Cabriolet (122bhp) 24.600€
Mini Cooper S Cabriolet (184bhp) 29.700€

And as a comparison

BMW Z4 sDrive 20i (184hp) 40.300€
Mercedes-Benz SLK 200 (184bhp) 42.340€

The thing about the MX-5 is that, at least lately, it seems to be in a niche of its own. There have been attemps at detroning it, both from specialist sportscars (MR2 spings to mind) and hatchback-derived open-top two seaters (Barchetta and more recently the Renault Wind), but none of it have succeeded and all ended up disappearing. As you say, one of the reasons the MX-5 has been sucessful is that it does quite a lot of things very well, unlike their rivals which usually focused in one apsect but were poor at the others. However, if someone can crack it I'd certainly put my money on the folks at BMW.

It'd be a little sad though that the MX-5 was beaten by premium badge, because as good as the Mini is, it's not in the same league the MX-5 is in. Oh and by the way, I wouldn't be so sure about practicality, because as a former Mk1 Mini hardtop driver it may have a pair of extra seats, but with them in place the boot is smaller than the MX-5s. And one of the great MX-5 features is that since the top folds in its own compartment there's change in the boot's capacity if the top is up or down. Not many convertible can say that.

Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia

The article fails to take a good look through history as the late 70's immediately came to my mind when production of convertibles was halted due to crash concerns(in USA). Granted that wasn't a market condition....but way before that sales of convertibles have been up and down(no pun intended).

Wiki:

Coach convertible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and altough the situation is different there has been economic crises before and the convertible has survived through all of them. And if safety was the issue, convertibles are now safer than ever.

[Ferrer]

World cars: Not as simple as it sounds edition.

Homologation and Other Problems Delay New Ford Mondeo Production Start in Europe - Carscoop

[NSXType-R]

Leave it to the Chinese to run MG you say?

MG Roadster SUV Is Further Proof Of Humanity's Decline

[NSXType-R]

Not that it hasn't been discussed before, but where an electric car is charged makes a big difference in the supposed emissions of the car.

How Green Are Electric Cars? Depends on Where You Plug In - NYTimes.com

It's a pretty old article, so I'm not sure if there are any updates to it.

That's still my biggest complaint about electric cars.

And that still leaves out the mining process for the rare earth metals in the battery and motor.

In a worst case scenario, supposedly an EV can get only 30 mpg and in a best case, it's about 50 mpg.

I'm also curious, how recycleable are EVs? Battery and motor technology can and will change- it's not like junkyards could make them useful 20 years down the line unless you're trying to restore a Chevy Volt.

[f6fhellcat13]

From here.

Originally Posted by Ferrer

Yet they insist on retro muscle cars.

I remember reading somewhere that one of the spokespeople for one of the Big Three said that in the next few years their focus will finally begin to shift from the Baby Boomers to whatever it is that we're called and will start making cars accordingly. I think the next generation of Mustang has been confirmed to be styled for the 21st century, which is nice. I hope the Camaro changes as well. The Challenger is probably the most faithful to muscle cars of old: great sound, overweight, and ill-handling and therefore needn't change to stay acceptable but badly needs to change to stay competitive.

And then there's the Cadillac Ciel...

The Ciel and Sixteen are both excellent but that doesn't seem to be the direction the Cadillac wants to take.

Lincoln, too, is lost in the wilderness. Cadillac at least has released those few concepts in the last decade and has shown that, at a minimum, a small cell of its engineers and designers remember that they're designing Cadillacs. Lincoln has shown no such signs.
In a world where people will pay $65,000 for a Tahoe with chrome wheels and disturbingly-absent merlettes where the bowtie or GM badge should be, why shouldn't people pay $70,000-$80,000 or so for a range-topping proper Caddy, ducks and all?

Put a big engine in it, don't make it sporty, and make it as opulent while still reigning things in for the sake of taste.

Europeanness is overrated.

The grass is always greener.
I am reminded of the USDM subculture in Japan. They slavishly replace clear turn signals with amber, get license-plate surrounds from Californian car dealers, and try to get trim from American-market cars on their Japanese vehicles. Funnily enough, those items are the ones American JDM enthusiasts desire least.

It is also funny because JDM fads become USDM fads become slightly different JDM fads ad infinitum as each side of the Pacific copies the other.

Similarly, America apes Europe by pretending that basic sedans are sporty, and Europe imitates America by increasing new model's size by 999,999,999% each model cycle and letting GM mismanage and axe storied marques.

This is why I think, in theory, a world car is so promising: take all the best parts of car cultures around the world and incorporate it into one car. Unforunatley, those good parts are either mutually-exclusive or expensive and world cars are stuck in an indifferent place between best-of-all-worlds and worst-of-all-worlds.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13

I remember reading somewhere that one of the spokespeople for one of the Big Three said that in the next few years their focus will finally begin to shift from the Baby Boomers to whatever it is that we're called and will start making cars accordingly. I think the next generation of Mustang has been confirmed to be styled for the 21st century, which is nice. I hope the Camaro changes as well. The Challenger is probably the most faithful to muscle cars of old: great sound, overweight, and ill-handling and therefore needn't change to stay acceptable but badly needs to change to stay competitive.

You see my actual favourite of the current muscle car is precisely the Challenger, despite being probably the worse of the buch. But as you say it is the most muscle-carish, orange, big engine, big power and big noise. And who cares that it can't turn corners. Corners are overrated.

I actually quite fancy a 392 with a manual. I do not care that the most speed I could do in a corners is 20, that the car wouldn't fit in my parking space or that I'd be broke after a copule of tanks of fuel.

The big Dodge is one of those cars that needs no intriduction. It's one of those cars the reminds us why we like cars so much. And that's why it is a great car.

Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13

The grass is always greener.
I am reminded of the USDM subculture in Japan. They slavishly replace clear turn signals with amber, get license-plate surrounds from Californian car dealers, and try to get trim from American-market cars on their Japanese vehicles. Funnily enough, those items are the ones American JDM enthusiasts desire least.

It is also funny because JDM fads become USDM fads become slightly different JDM fads ad infinitum as each side of the Pacific copies the other.

Similarly, America apes Europe by pretending that basic sedans are sporty, and Europe imitates America by increasing new model's size by 999,999,999% each model cycle and letting GM mismanage and axe storied marques.

This is why I think, in theory, a world car is so promising: take all the best parts of car cultures around the world and incorporate it into one car. Unforunatley, those good parts are either mutually-exclusive or expensive and world cars are stuck in an indifferent place between best-of-all-worlds and worst-of-all-worlds.

Or like the diesel thing with North American petrolheads...

However, I for one think that a world car is a bad idea. Precisely by having to incorporate the very different attributes that a car needs in different parts of the world (sometimes even mutually exclusive) you are going to have to reach a compromise and that compromise might end up pleasing nobody.

Take new world Fords. They are a mish mash of attributes that makes them not quite as sharp as the old EDM Fords and far too big but at the same time too slow and uncomfortable for American tastes.

It is also curious that while Ford is going with the world car strategy, and GM also timidly with the Buick-Opel pairing, Hyundai and Volkswagen are going in the exact opposite direction developping products specifically for certain markets (Europe for Hyundai, North America for VW).

The next Mustang is going to go global apparently. How will this affect the basic design?

And by the way, which are the ones which are bleeding money badly in Europeland?

[Ferrer]

Long life to the SUV!

Or something.

U.S. has fewer cars per person than Europe, but still uses twice as much energy

[culver]

How many km are driven on average per person? I mean driving across Germany is like driving across the wide part of Texas.

[Ferrer]

Originally Posted by culver

How many km are driven on average per person? I mean driving across Germany is like driving across the wide part of Texas.

That may explain it. I think that on the whole it is a very biased article...

[Ferrer]

Interesting comparison.

2012 Mini Cooper S Roadster vs. 2012 Mazda MX-5 Miata Special Edition

They are wrong on the everyday-friendliness, though.

[NSXType-R]

Jalopnik posted this article yesterday- I wholeheartedly agree that cars are just the same general shapes because of the regulations on safety imposed by the government.

Photoshop Reveals How All Modern Cars Look The Same

Add on general considerations on aerodynamics, and they'll all look about the same.

[Ferrer]

I think that this article is seriously biased. Right from the day cars appeared on the streets there are cars that have resembled other cars. Also the cars that tend to be imitated are those who are successful and exepnsive, so it's normal that Hondas or Toyotas try to look like Benzes and BMWs.

In any case, the notion that an X1 may look even remotely like a RAV4 is laughable. If only for the fact the mechanical layouts are completely different. And a crudely photoshopped Toyota grille in a BMW X1 won't make me change of opinion...

[pimento]

Bizarrely enough, I agree with the comments I saw on that article.. it's a load of rubbish. You could do that with any era and get the same results.. very questionable 'shops that would fool people who wouldn't know anyway.

[Ferrer]

Aston Martin range increasingly difficult to comprehend.

Aston Martin Virage discontinued after short lifespan

Honestly, can anyone make any sense out of Aston Martin? As far as I'm concerned it looks like like they've been introducing, producing, discontinouing, reintroducing, reproducing, rediscontinouing, rereintroducing,... slightly different versions of the same car since the 1640s...

[pimento]

To be fair, the Virage was just what the DB9 should've been. Also if they move away from the 'DB' nomanclature now it will be a bit of a shame, cos it rules out there being a DBX. There should be one of those. Then there can be a leopard print one with many body enhancements called the DBXXX.